Ceriatone HRM - Eric Gales Two Rock Please Help

[halfbackstrat]

To be honest, I'm not well versed on the difference in the HRM and Bluesmaster circuits in terms of sound. I prefer the low gain 102/124 route myself so I'll not give you advice and have it turn out to be bad advice.
As far as i'm aware they're both PODS circuits, so either will work.
I would guess the tone cap values are actually different from classic Skyliner, TR will have tweaked them to their preferred values for that amp, however the skyliner values are a good place to start.

Colossal has wise words! Take heed!

[Fender0740]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo3F6GQ2v6c

This is the exact sound im on about with this amp and this video gives a great range of sounds!

The clean is a fat pronounced mid range, articulate and with a lush note bloom,

The OD/Tame germanium fuzz face if you like - is again articulate, you can hear the notes bloom, has that mid range, a nice low end too!

How would you get that much gain out of the HRM Ceriatone what would you have to change?

[Fender0740]

To be honest, I'm not well versed on the difference in the HRM and Bluesmaster circuits in terms of sound. I prefer the low gain 102/124 route myself so I'll not give you advice and have it turn out to be bad advice.
As far as i'm aware they're both PODS circuits, so either will work.
I would guess the tone cap values are actually different from classic Skyliner, TR will have tweaked them to their preferred values for that amp, however the skyliner values are a good place to start.

Colossal has wise words! Take heed!

Thats as I thought the Skyliner would be the best place to start, it seems to be more centered around the lower mid range and low end frequencies while the Bluesmaster focused on the higher frequencies giving it a type of scooped sound? Im no expert just from sound clips and videos can I base that on and YouTube has its own compressor so even then can't really be sure of anything!

Indeed he does, you all do and im grateful for your help thus far!

[Colossal]

Colossal - Thank you for that, I have read that the tubes you use in this amp with the tube rectifier does make a HUGE difference to the overall sound of the amp. The Mullard 5AR4's is what I was looking at as they are what people have recommended but the price tag is steep! Then again if that's what gives the best tone I may just have to dove a little deeper into my wallet and if they dont work for my tastes then I'm sure I can sell them and find something that does

Yeah, those Mullards don't come cheap anymore but man, they sound good. The good news is that they are a strong investment and you should own them for a very long time, if not a lifetime. It's hard to commit a lot of cash to just one aspect of the amp like that but my personal view is that transformers and rectifier (tubes) are a big percentage of the whole equation so I don't mind ponying up there. The power supply is the foundation for everything else downstream, both in terms of reliability and tone. You might consider starting out with a couple of Sovtek 5AR4s just to get the amp working and if you like their tone/feel, then just wait till you hear a Mullard. As you say, you can always resell if you find the Mullard doesn't quite do it for you.

In a recent Rocket/AC30 TB type build for example, I rolled a bunch of different 5AR4/GZ34s through it and hands down, the Mullard beat them all. The Sovtek 5AR4 came in a remarkably close 2nd...quite good for current production and plenty good for daily use or where you might not want to gig/beat on personal reserve NOS. I can really hear the added clarity a Mullard brings...that and an almost 3D/reverb quality. The other rectifiers (various and sundry) sounded more 2D...good, but not jawdropping. Plug in the Mullard and wow, there it is. The sound stage just gets bigger and wider and the sound appears to come from everywhere rather than "right up front"/flatter sounding.

Colossal has wise words! Take heed!

You are too kind dude, but thanks!

[Fender0740]

[/quote] Yeah, those Mullards don't come cheap anymore but man, they sound good. The good news is that they are a strong investment and you should own them for a very long time, if not a lifetime. It's hard to commit a lot of cash to just one aspect of the amp like that but my personal view is that transformers and rectifier (tubes) are a big percentage of the whole equation so I don't mind ponying up there. The power supply is the foundation for everything else downstream, both in terms of reliability and tone. You might consider starting out with a couple of Sovtek 5AR4s just to get the amp working and if you like their tone/feel, then just wait till you hear a Mullard. As you say, you can always resell if you find the Mullard doesn't quite do it for you.

In a recent Rocket/AC30 TB type build for example, I rolled a bunch of different 5AR4/GZ34s through it and hands down, the Mullard beat them all. The Sovtek 5AR4 came in a remarkably close 2nd...quite good for current production and plenty good for daily use or where you might not want to gig/beat on personal reserve NOS. I can really hear the added clarity a Mullard brings...that and an almost 3D/reverb quality. The other rectifiers (various and sundry) sounded more 2D...good, but not jawdropping. Plug in the Mullard and wow, there it is. The sound stage just gets bigger and wider and the sound appears to come from everywhere rather than "right up front"/flatter sounding. [/quote]

Wow!, thats a great review there, I'm keen to try some after the sounds I've heard from amps that use them. There's a guy on YouTube that swapped out the stock Tubes that came with the amp and replaced them with Mullards that amp just fills the room!! That is what I'm after a 3D sound that the EG gives straight off the Bat im sure with some Mullards it would sound outstanding Thanks man[/quote]

[Fender0740]

Colossal - Thank you for that, I have read that the tubes you use in this amp with the tube rectifier does make a HUGE difference to the overall sound of the amp. The Mullard 5AR4's is what I was looking at as they are what people have recommended but the price tag is steep! Then again if that's what gives the best tone I may just have to dove a little deeper into my wallet and if they dont work for my tastes then I'm sure I can sell them and find something that does

Yeah, those Mullards don't come cheap anymore but man, they sound good. The good news is that they are a strong investment and you should own them for a very long time, if not a lifetime. It's hard to commit a lot of cash to just one aspect of the amp like that but my personal view is that transformers and rectifier (tubes) are a big percentage of the whole equation so I don't mind ponying up there. The power supply is the foundation for everything else downstream, both in terms of reliability and tone. You might consider starting out with a couple of Sovtek 5AR4s just to get the amp working and if you like their tone/feel, then just wait till you hear a Mullard. As you say, you can always resell if you find the Mullard doesn't quite do it for you.

In a recent Rocket/AC30 TB type build for example, I rolled a bunch of different 5AR4/GZ34s through it and hands down, the Mullard beat them all. The Sovtek 5AR4 came in a remarkably close 2nd...quite good for current production and plenty good for daily use or where you might not want to gig/beat on personal reserve NOS. I can really hear the added clarity a Mullard brings...that and an almost 3D/reverb quality. The other rectifiers (various and sundry) sounded more 2D...good, but not jawdropping. Plug in the Mullard and wow, there it is. The sound stage just gets bigger and wider and the sound appears to come from everywhere rather than "right up front"/flatter sounding.

Colossal has wise words! Take heed!

You are too kind dude, but thanks!

Havent worked out how to delete yet so sorry about the mix up above!

Wow!, thats a great review there, I'm keen to try some after the sounds I've heard from amps that use them. There's a guy on YouTube that swapped out the stock Tubes that came with the amp and replaced them with Mullards that amp just fills the room!! That is what I'm after a 3D sound that the EG gives straight off the Bat im sure with some Mullards it would sound outstanding Wink Thanks man

[halfbackstrat]

Collossal - Have you build an ODS with tube rectifiers? If so what PT did you use? I've been having a look for one with a 5V 4A tap this afternoon and can't find any! Most have a the 5V tap for the relay but it's 3A.

Might have to use a second PT in parallel with the main PT, I'm sure Hammond must make a PT that steps 240V down to 5V 4A directly!

[Colossal]

Collossal - Have you build an ODS with tube rectifiers? If so what PT did you use? I've been having a look for one with a 5V 4A tap this afternoon and can't find any! Most have a the 5V tap for the relay but it's 3A.

No I haven't. I have not dabbled in Dumbleland yet, but certainly not for lack of interest. My personal tastes are high gain amps (musical and articulate, not the buzzy chainsaw variety) but I am very interested in Dumbles. Just terribly short on time and building amps for others. The reason I mention my like for tube rectifiers (for some amps) is that I have even used them on high gain prototypes (which might seem counterintuitive) and have been quite surprised and pleased with the results. Again, there is a relationship between rectification type, filtering, and the desired sound and feel so YMMV. A number of good transformer manufacturers have some PTs in their catalogs that are suitable for "project" style amps that are not clones. Check out Magnetic Components and Mercury. They definitely have PTs which will suit.

Might have to use a second PT in parallel with the main PT, I'm sure Hammond must make a PT that steps 240V down to 5V 4A directly!

Definitely an idea. Separate PT for filament windings gives you the flexibility to use a PT on hand, especially if prototyping. Mercury makes a standalone 5V/6.3VAC PT specifically for tube rectifiers (part number RECT-PT).

[Fender0740]

Collossal - Have you build an ODS with tube rectifiers? If so what PT did you use? I've been having a look for one with a 5V 4A tap this afternoon and can't find any! Most have a the 5V tap for the relay but it's 3A.

No I haven't. I have not dabbled in Dumbleland yet, but certainly not for lack of interest. My personal tastes are high gain amps (musical and articulate, not the buzzy chainsaw variety) but I am very interested in Dumbles. Just terribly short on time and building amps for others. The reason I mention my like for tube rectifiers (for some amps) is that I have even used them on high gain prototypes (which might seem counterintuitive) and have been quite surprised and pleased with the results. Again, there is a relationship between rectification type, filtering, and the desired sound and feel so YMMV. A number of good transformer manufacturers have some PTs in their catalogs that are suitable for "project" style amps that are not clones. Check out Magnetic Components and Mercury. They definitely have PTs which will suit.

Might have to use a second PT in parallel with the main PT, I'm sure Hammond must make a PT that steps 240V down to 5V 4A directly!

Definitely an idea. Separate PT for filament windings gives you the flexibility to use a PT on hand, especially if prototyping. Mercury makes a standalone 5V/6.3VAC PT specifically for tube rectifiers (part number RECT-PT).

Wow some great information there! I've been looking at Magnetic Components Transformers, as that is what is used in the EG Two Rock confirmed by shot of it by someone on here I found earlier

[halfbackstrat]

Thanks Colossal, i haven't seen those MM - Rectifier transformers before, alas the MM one is only 120V no 240V version for us Scotland based builders
Does anyone else make them?

Currently got my pen and paper out designing!

[Colossal]

Thanks Colossal, i haven't seen those MM - Rectifier transformers before, alas the MM one is only 120V no 240V version for us Scotland based builders
Does anyone else make them?

Currently got my pen and paper out designing!

Sorry man, can't help you there. I didn't look at your location! Perhaps some of the builders in UK will pipe up?

[halfbackstrat]

No worries! You've been more than helpful enough already! Almost threadjacking here!

Found this by Hammond http://www.hammondmfg.com/185.htm
Secondaries wired in parallel for a 5V 5A outputwhich should be fine!

[Colossal]

Found this by Hammond http://www.hammondmfg.com/185.htm
Secondaries wired in parallel for a 5V 5A outputwhich should be fine!

I was going to suggest Hammond, but hadn't checked their catalogue for a suitable equivalent. Glad they have one that fits the bill and their pricing vs. utility is very good.

Sorry about the threadjack too!

[Fender0740]

Hey Guys I've been emailing Nik from Ceriatone with the same question at hand here is what he had to say

Tim

Thanks

Sure thing.

The easiest way to increase gain on the HRM is to mod it to have a switch to
defeat the HRM tonestack. We usually do it 3 way. Ie, defeated, partially
defeated, and stock.

You can also play with the snubber values on V2 (OD tube), that gives a lot
of options as well, in terms of how the highs are cut in the OD.

Other than that, people also like to add treble bleed switch for the OD
master vol, to cut down the highs and make it smoother.

Of course, values in the preamp can be tweaked further as well. You can also
play with the NFB resistor for more gain.

There are definitely lots of tweaks for sure. As for Eric Gales, I am not
familiar with his amp, so cant say for sure.

Hope this helps, let me know..

Thanks!

nik

2nd email

Tim

Thanks, that's great!

Sure thing.

As for the EG, not very sure really. Could be, or could be something else.
Hard to say without the info.

Yeah, if you do, make sure to put the defeat, it does put crazy gain to the
amp.

And you can play with snubber values as well, to get it to where you want.

Thanks!

nik

[Fender0740]

So a few questions..
Does this seem like the way to go to make this a higher gain amp?
What would you change and play with in regards to the "snubber values"?
If I ask the amp to comes with a bypass mod that bypassed the power amp tone stack is it easily made foot switchable to the same foot switch that comes with the Ceritatone amp? Again any help greatly appreciated

Tim