SSS 002 LAYOUT

[vibratoking]

Not sure about board vendors anyone have ideas?

I would be up for designing PCBs along the lines of what jborders did,.

[Max]

I used the values on the hand drawn schem.

Aaron, I see. But if so, why don't you show a 100K LIN volume control in the SSS #001 layout, too?

AFAIR the picture posted here of #001 it doesn't show what's written on the back of the volume control of #001 - just as it doesn't show the power supply of #001. And AFAIR in regard to the missing power supply of #001 you decided by reasons unknown to me to show the power supply shown in the hand drawn SSS #002 schematic in the SSS #001 layout. Or do I remember wrong concerning this?

That's why I ask why you didn’t show the 100K LIN volume control shown in the schematic of #002 in the #001 layout - just as you did concerning the power supply - because AFAIR the actual value of the SSS #001 volume control isn't visible on the SSS #001 picture? Because the SSS #002 schematic reportedly isn't correct - as some members here posted concerning this hand drawn #002 schematic AFAIR – or for some other reason/s?

Why not showing a 100K LIN volume control in the SSS #001 layout, too, if you trust in this hand drawn schematic of SSS #002?

Maybe the original owner had a Tele that had weak pick ups and really trebley!

AFAIK Alexander Dumble built SSS #002 for Jackson Browne's studio.

Cheers,

Max

[markusw]

A while ago I did some LTSpice simulations on the SSS #002 filters.
At that time I also checked the frequency response of a 100K volume control versus a 1 Meg volume control.

Interestingly, with a 100k volume pot the deep switch basically stops working as it doesn't change the low end.
See
https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... eep#205481
for the simulations.

Therefore, I believe that the 100k volume pot is a mistake in the hand drawn SSS #002 schemo.

Just my 2c of course

Peace,

Markus

[Max]

I believe that the 100k volume pot is a mistake in the hand drawn SSS #002 schemo.

If so, we might consider that an author of a schematic making such a kind of mistake might make other mistakes, too.

BTW: AFAIR there once was a gut shot of SSS #002 posted here: http://www.sebagosound.com/ And AFAIR this gut shot of SSS #002 did show a blue filter cap. So the power supply pictured on this gut shot of SSS #002 was obviously no longer the original one.

So this hand drawn schematic of SSS #002 was drawn hopefully before the filter caps have been replaced - or the one replacing them hopefully didn't "improve" the tone of SSS #002 by implanting some "better" power supply - or he hopefully didn't replace some original caps with some specs not available quick enough by new caps with different specs, because "the power supply isn't in the signal path anyway" etc.

Otherwise the power supply shown in the hand drawn schematic and in this layout of SSS #002 (and in the layout of #001 - if derived from this hand drawn schematic, too?) might be different from the original power supply of SSS #002.

And IMO the many differences between SSS #001, #002 and #004 visible on the gut shots of these amps posted here at The Amp Garage and at http://www.sebagosound.com/ prove that this statement of Alexander Dumble might be meant by him exactly as stated:

"I've kept the Overdrive the same but the other models are open to flexibility." [highlighting - Max]

Source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... /Articles/

So the opinion SSS #001 might have been built by Alexander Dumble with the same power supply as SSS #002 (or whatever else SSS 100W) is IMO a rather bold assumption anyway.

But on the other hand: If some here think creating schematics and layouts of actual Dumble amps like SSS #001 "by simply hooking the logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter suspended in a strong Brownian Motion producer (say a nice hot cup of tea)"* is lots of fun - why not?

*Douglas Adams - "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Have lots of fun!

Cheers,

Max

[Aaron]

markusw
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:36 am Post subject:
A while ago I did some LTSpice simulations on the SSS #002 filters.
At that time I also checked the frequency response of a 100K volume control versus a 1 Meg volume control.

Interestingly, with a 100k volume pot the deep switch basically stops working as it doesn't change the low end.
See
https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... eep#205481
for the simulations.

Therefore, I believe that the 100k volume pot is a mistake in the hand drawn SSS #002 schemo.

Just my 2c of course

Peace,

Markus

Ah yes, sorry. I forgot about that.
The only time I really get a chance to do this is after work and the family has gone to bed. So I start late and usually still up till 2:30 in the morning then up at 7am for ground hog day. So by that time at night I usually miss the finer details.

Max
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:40 am Post subject:
markusw wrote:
I believe that the 100k volume pot is a mistake in the hand drawn SSS #002 schemo.


If so, we might consider that an author of a schematic making such a kind of mistake might make other mistakes, too.

BTW: AFAIR there once was a gut shot of SSS #002 posted here: http://www.sebagosound.com/ And AFAIR this gut shot of SSS #002 did show a blue filter cap. So the power supply pictured on this gut shot of SSS #002 was obviously no longer the original one.

So this hand drawn schematic of SSS #002 was drawn hopefully before the filter caps have been replaced - or the one replacing them hopefully didn't "improve" the tone of SSS #002 by implanting some "better" power supply - or he hopefully didn't replace some original caps with some specs not available quick enough by new caps with different specs, because "the power supply isn't in the signal path anyway" etc.

Otherwise the power supply shown in the hand drawn schematic and in this layout of SSS #002 (and in the layout of #001 - if derived from this hand drawn schematic, too?) might be different from the original power supply of SSS #002.

And IMO the many differences between SSS #001, #002 and #004 visible on the gut shots of these amps posted here at The Amp Garage and at http://www.sebagosound.com/ prove that this statement of Alexander Dumble might be meant by him exactly as stated:

"I've kept the Overdrive the same but the other models are open to flexibility." [highlighting - Max]

Source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... /Articles/

So the opinion SSS #001 might have been built by Alexander Dumble with the same power supply as SSS #002 (or whatever else SSS 100W) is IMO a rather bold assumption anyway.

But on the other hand: If some here think creating layouts and schematics of actual Dumble amps like SSS #001 "by simply hooking the logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub- Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter suspended in a strong Brownian Motion producer (say a nice hot cup of tea)" Douglas Adams - "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Why not?

Have lots of fun!

Cheers,

Max

Hi Max,

All I'm trying to do is put all the SSS info on this whole forum together. If I have to read every science fiction book out there to get some answers so be it.
I am sure there are people out there have the answers. You think they get access to SSS 001 and only take a picture of one side of the chassis, or access to SSS 002 and take a single shot from 50 meters on low resolution.

It was 6 months after this forum started that Gil posted #124. That didn't stop people throwing out ideas, even if they were wrong or inaccurate. But it eventually did lead to an accurate and highly detailed outcome.

Look how much has actually come public since statcat62 started the "New ReleaSSSes" thread.

Hopefully by putting in 20-30hrs a week on top of work and family someone will say "your so damn close with everything else on SSS 001, this the rest".

Thanks,

Aaron

[Max]

All I'm trying to do is put all the SSS info on this whole forum together.

This would IMO be excellent indeed. But instead of this IMO you mix all the info available at TAG into some cocktail that by its title "SSS #001" IMO pretends to be something it isn't: a trustworthy layout of the actual Dumble SSS with the serial #001.

And when such a cocktail is mixed IMO it might not be that easy to remember for everyone here what's all in the mix and out of which bottle it came. And after all the sources for the ingrediences of the mixture will be forgotten, many members here - especially the future ones - might be no longer able to decide for themselves which sources they think are trustworthy and what in the mix might be science and what fiction. In regard to #124 even in some distant future everyone here will be able to study the detailed pictures and to draw his own conclusions. This is IMO a status quo rather different from the one in regard to SSS #001 and #002. This is what I critizise - not what you're aiming at, but how you try to achieve it.

What would be the problem with a layout with 80% blank parts e.g. that could be continued step by step when something new will be known because visible on detailed pictures, instead of only assumed? And in addition such a layout with blank parts e. g. would IMO be a very easy way to communicate what kind of information is still needed and would be an obvious invitation to contribute.

A compilation of all the info posted here and referring to all the sources would be brilliant IMO. So IMO it's a pity that you decided to approach this in a different way.

Here you can study what an approach like yours might result in: http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... preamp.pdf

This schematic is posted under the title "70's ODS preamp" and shows a "classic" tone stack. And I'm not sure if even one of the transition generation ODS amps with such a "classic" tone stack has already been completed in the "70's". And AFAIK most of the "70's ODS preamps" look rather different. But now this nonsens sits in the internet pretending to be a trustworthy info about the "70's ODS preamp".

But of course I respect that you - and obviously many others here, too - prefer to approch this in your "quick and dirty" way instead of just approaching layouts of these great musical instruments in a step by step manner according to the speed of the growing knowledge and not according to the speed more speculations come to our minds. I like to live in a colorful world and so I don't have any problem with the fact that individuals of course have individual opinions. But please understand, that I post mine.

Cheers,

Max

[hans-jörg]

Hi Mark,

I'd defiantly be in for a kit.
Aaron

Hello Aaron,
I´m definitly one of the guys who´s waitig for such a "kit" Mark mentioned.
Boards for toe 002 would be enough though.
Rearly appriciate your (night time)work.
Apologize that from my side you can´t expect proper input except of my intention to build up this animal

Best

Hans-Jörg

[dcribbs1412]

It was 6 months after this forum started that Gil posted #124. That didn't stop people throwing out ideas, even if they were wrong or inaccurate. But it eventually did lead to an accurate and highly detailed outcome.

Look how much has actually come public since statcat62 started the "New ReleaSSSes" thread.

Hopefully by putting in 20-30hrs a week on top of work and family someone will say "your so damn close with everything else on SSS 001, this the rest".

Thanks,

Aaron

Aaron
I'm not sure how close you are but, you have inspired
myself and hopefully others to start builds using this info
and eventually lead to a great amp.
Very much appreciate your time/work

Darin

[aflynt]

The only time I really get a chance to do this is after work and the family has gone to bed. So I start late and usually still up till 2:30 in the morning then up at 7am for ground hog day. So by that time at night I usually miss the finer details.

I have exactly the same situation going on here and I can really appreciate all the work you've done on these SSS layouts. It took a whole bunch of nights like that for me just to do my #102 build.

- (another) Aaron

[dreric]

All I'm trying to do is put all the SSS info on this whole forum together.

This would IMO be excellent indeed. But instead of this IMO you mix all the info available at TAG into some cocktail that by its title "SSS #001" IMO pretends to be something it isn't: a trustworthy layout of the actual Dumble SSS with the serial #001.

And when such a cocktail is mixed IMO it might not be that easy to remember for everyone here what's all in the mix and out of which bottle it came. And after all the sources for the ingrediences of the mixture will be forgotten, many members here - especially the future ones - might be no longer able to decide for themselves which sources they think are trustworthy and what in the mix might be science and what fiction. In regard to #124 even in some distant future everyone here will be able to study the detailed pictures and to draw his own conclusions. This is IMO a status quo rather different from the one in regard to SSS #001 and #002. This is what I critizise - not what you're aiming at, but how you try to achieve it.

What would be the problem with a layout with 80% blank parts e.g. that could be continued step by step when something new will be known because visible on detailed pictures, instead of only assumed?

A compilation of all the info posted here and referring to all the sources would be brilliant IMO. So IMO it's a pity that you decided to approach this in a different way.

Here you can study what an approach like yours might result in: http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... preamp.pdf

This schematic is posted under the title "70's ODS preamp" and shows a "classic" tone stack. And I'm not sure if even one of the transition generation ODS amps with such a "classic" tone stack has already been completed in the "70's". And AFAIK most of the "70's ODS preamps" look rather different. But now this nonsens sits in the internet pretending to be a trustworthy info about the "70's ODS preamp".

But of course I respect that you - and obviously many others here, too - prefer to approch this in your "quick and dirty" way instead of just approaching layouts of these great musical instruments in a step by step manner according to the speed of the growing knowledge and not according to the speed more speculations come to our minds. I like to live in a colorful world and so I don't have any problem with the fact that individuals of course have individual opinions. But please understand, that I post mine.

Cheers,

Max

Max,

Respectfully, IMO, this post takes away a bit of Aaron's well deserved thunder at the moment. Aaron is contributing an amazing amount of information and a lot of hard work. I see no reference to him saying that the work is definitive and not subject to change. As some say, "more shall be revealed"

Personally, I take exception to the "quick and dirty" comment. I don't think anyone here, amateur or pro, feels that way about their work.

I respect and have benefited from your knowledge and contributions and , IMO you are criticizing Aaron for not posting a finished, definitive product rather than allowing the community to pool it's resources and build a usable amp.

Aaron,

Thank you for your contributions and for taking the time from work and family. YOU'RE AWESOME DUDE!

Eric

[67plexi]

Aaron, Nice work on the layout. RJ'S blank Mega chassis is the correct size for the SSS amp.
I spent more hours than I can count sizing the boards and writing the CNC cut files for the SSS.
My M-Tech laptop fried the video card $1200.00 plus shipping for a video card.
Then burnt my lungs etching the boards. My friend Wayne that owns the CNC has been in the hospital
for the last year and is not doing well at this time. Sorry Tony for falling short on this project.
Aaron go back to the classic series of Dumble amps for your pot values. It's a starting point.
If you wish to go with the 150 watt SSS a PT in the range of 525-540 VAC, B+1 should get the job done
and 10-12 amp filament supply. For 6550A or KT88.
This photo may help.

Best regards, Steve.

[vibratoking]

Max - I clearly understand your points regarding assembling the layout using information, assumption, best guesses, etc... The point is to get a layout/schematic that is as close as possible to a working SSS given the information that is currently available to the people making the effort. The goal for many is to build something. Whether that working SSS is exactly based on #001, #002 or any other is another consideration. I think labeling the results as #001, #002 or any other is a problem. I also agree with Aaron, creating this information may help bring forth more accurate or explicit information regarding circuit details of individual SSS versions. At some point, new information will come to light. More pics of the real amps will be released or someone will get inside a Bludo or Quinn or Welagan or Sebago or some other builder's amp with first hand knowledge of an original. I don't think anyone is that interested in copying the second hand info from Nik's builds. But until new information is made available, this is as close as we are going to get. As I stated earlier, there are errors in the layouts of other amps in the files section. But I haven't noticed your comments about those layouts being deceptive or improperly documented or inaccurate. Perhaps you have and I misssed it?

I suggest that after the layout/schematic are 'finalized', whatever that means, that this information is moved to a sticky in the files section. At that point we, including you, can post information regarding what portions of the circuit are from #001, #002 or any other etc...IMO, that will be the proper time and place to document all the issues so that everyone can understand where the information came from. BTW, I don't think it is time to move the information to the files section, but we are getting close.

[talbany]

there are errors in the layouts of other amps in the files section

Please point these out to me and I'll be happy to correct them..

Tony

[vibratoking]

I made a post a few weeks ago about the connection of treble pot wiper to the volume pot in Aaron's SSS #001 layout and the 2nd gen layout. I thought I saw that both had a wiper to wiper connection. I just looked at the 2nd gen again and it is correct. Was I hallucinating or did you already change it?

[talbany]

I made a post a few weeks ago about the connection of treble pot wiper to the volume pot in the 2nd gen layout. I just looked again and it is correct. Was I hallucinating or did you already change it?

Yeah Aaron sent me a PM about it so I changed it!! Thanks for the heads up!!

The only Dumble ODS we are not 100% certain of are The Bluesmaster and the Ford 102 amp..The others are (historically) very accurate and documented from actual amplifiers from that era..
The Bluesmaster was taken from an actual amp just not the overdrive section that was gooped..I can assure you I have since received other pics of degooped Blues master that collaborates perfectly with the layout I posted..
I believe most of the 102 has been posted but there has been several details that are just not available to us at that time..



The 002 schematic has some errors..Some were corrected some not.. I believe most here who have this info are not going to come to the rescue for the others on this one..(don't need to say why. ) So this will more than likly become an ongoing step by step procedure and those who build these will contribute there opinions and hopefully come up with an Amp Garage version of SSS 002.. This will probably take some time.. So with this said I would just convert the 002 schematic to layout form and label it 002 UNTESTED and contains errors..(perhaps label the parts in suspect in red and add to legend)This is the best you can do at this point in time..IMO

Prototype Prototype!!

Tony