Help Me Choose a Tube Set with a $600 budget for my SSS

[bigwebb83]

I'll have to differ to Nik on the schematics. None came with the amp and I'm certainly not qualified to draw one up. I'm don't even think I'm comfortable taking it apart for a gutshot. I'm a chikenshit, what can I say.

[M Fowler]

Gut shots of the new C-SSS have already been posted.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=90

I like JJ tubes in every hole of most of my amps.

Mark

[ER]

Assuming there's nothing wrong with the amp, spend your dough on some JJs and EVM 12L's.

[bigwebb83]

Assuming there's nothing wrong with the amp, spend your dough on some JJs and EVM 12L's.

Thanks for the advice. Lots of love for JJ's here. Thats a good thing. I see alot of people using EVM 12L's for this type of amp. Can anyone speak to the differences between this speaker and the Two Rock Speaker that is currently in there?

[M Fowler]

I can't comment about Two Rock but with my various Celestions and Eminence speakers it's like pull a blanket off the cabinet for clarity.

Mark

[boldaslove6789]

Assuming there's nothing wrong with the amp, spend your dough on some JJs and EVM 12L's.

Thanks for the advice. Lots of love for JJ's here. Thats a good thing. I see alot of people using EVM 12L's for this type of amp. Can anyone speak to the differences between this speaker and the Two Rock Speaker that is currently in there?

I have a Two-Rock Labeled ET-65 (made by WGS) in a 2x12 with a Celestion g1265 that I've used with all sorts of amps (mostly D-style, but used with my Quinn SDO exclusively).

I've owned and played many of EvM-12L's with ODS and SSS type amps.

I highly recommend the Ev's (at least 2 of them). The SSS is about big clean headroom and the Ev's will give you just that without the akward cone breakup that the Celestion G1265 (or Two-Rock ET-65) can produce at high volumes. Although I dug the sound of the Celestions, the Ev's are just naturaly suited for big clean tones.

John Mayer uses a 4x12 cab (2 individual 2x12's), and he uses a mix of Celestion Century (AlNiCo based), and Celestion G1265's. I think the reason this config sounds soo good is because he has 4 speakers, otherwise just a 2x12 config would break too fast and not give up enough clean headroom.

[bigwebb83]

jeebus, my 1x12 is loud enough, I can't imagine adding another or dare i say 3 more!

[T Wilcox]

Isn't your SSS 100 watts?
The 2rock speaker is 65 watts power handling correct?
Just thinking outloud here

Todd

[bigwebb83]

Isn't your SSS 100 watts?
The 2rock speaker is 65 watts power handling correct?
Just thinking outloud here

Todd

I think they are rated at 100watts

[boldaslove6789]

Isn't your SSS 100 watts?
The 2rock speaker is 65 watts power handling correct?
Just thinking outloud here

Todd

I think they are rated at 100watts

Nope, the Two-Rock ET65 is only 65w's I'd suggest using another one with it or you'll risk blowing the (1) you have if you're using it at high volumes.

[M Fowler]

I am going to be running one 212 with G12-65's and another 212 with EVM12Ls to see how I like them and with which amps.

I want to get some Fane speakers as well.

Mark

[Structo]

I sure like my two EV 12L Classics.

I would love to try a pair of 12-65's some day but I can't afford to buy them and not like them.

[M Fowler]

Bigwebb could save the $$ for tubes and buy some high wattage speakers for vast improvement in sound quality, NOS tubes later.

Mark

[wjdunham]

I sure like my two EV 12L Classics.

I would love to try a pair of 12-65's some day but I can't afford to buy them and not like them.

Hi Tom, I can say pretty confidently you will not be wasting your money with a pair of the G12-65's and a D-style amp. In many hours of customer A/B testing they always come out on top. I REALLY wanted to have someone like a less expensive speaker, but never happened.
Relative to the EV, it's a different animal though. I think you will find you'll like both but that the Celestion is better for small room, lower volume playing. G12 is just a bit warmer and more pleasing, probably due to the EV being very bright. Very few customers have chosen the EV over the Celestion, using standard Dumble-style oval back 2x12 cab and 1x12 cabs and an A/B switch hooked up between the cabs and the amp. We even swapped the relative position of the cabs to make sure that wasn't coloring the sound too much Of course YMMV, but I'm always surprised how consistent the responses seems to be.


Bill
www.sebagosound.com

[212Mavguy]

I have heard the evm12l and Celestion g12-65. have never owned those speakers and personally, definitely, never will think of purchasing either speaker....my ears don't belong to those two herds. I do have a NOS Altec Lansing ER12S, appears 100% identical to EVM 12S in build. Not spamming but would accept a resonable offer. I don't feel like spending a couple hundred hours breaking it in when I have several other, nicer sounding JBL G125 in 12 and G135 in 15, which somehow have plenty of top end clean or dirty, but in some way those upper mids and top end are much more pleasing to my ears than any EV I have ever heard with my three D-clones or any other amps/cabs in my stable. Spendy, rare, got mine from ebay over a few years, but not nearly as expensive as a Scholz sugarcone, Tone Tubby, Fane AXA 12 alnico, or top end Weber build for instance. Cheapest 60, spendiest, 160 plus shipping in my fleabay experiences, most right around that 160 mark if original cone in good shape.

Tubes in the C-tone SSS?

You only have two really tone critical preamp choices, V1 and PI. So this amp should be very easy to tubevoice, buy strong VOS tubes for it. Not very many tube variables to juggle here.

Loose bottom end? I do not hear any looseness in mine, mine is very tight and fast sounding to me, tighter than my 50w OTS and on a par with my 50w HRM.

So for a mad science project...

1) Put in preamp tubes in those positions with the characteristics that the original tubes had when the amp was built, period correct. That would be the GE 12ax7a/7025a shortplate and RCA 12ax7a/7025 shortplate and RCA 7025 shortplate. These are safest choices, period, for what that circuit likes. The GE in particular is not all that high on the HIFI weenies' as well as guitar player's radar, they are among the least expensive vintage 12ax7 types, and among the best in build quality. Lots of 'em were made. The RCA shortplate 7025 is more expensive to obtain, double to triple the GE's price but well worth the $$, quiet running and oh so musical in a Fender-y way. RCA 12ax7a/7025 is a similar bit slightly different flavor, get both types, again these are inexpensive and common for vintage 12ax7's. Greg Clark has found the using period correct vintage amp parts help the D-clone tones a lot. So does using vintage correct tubes.

2) NOS??? NO! VOS, YES!

Buy stong used. NOS will tonally drift more over time due to normal break in/burn in. After a couple hundred hours they sound just like the VOS, so why bother? Used tubes have gone through that already.

3) From my experience rolling vintage 12ax7's out of my collection of hundreds of vintage ones slowly accumulated over time, I have learned time and time again that when you stick in a preamp tube having a big bass response, you get to turn down that bass knob a click or two. An increase in bass knob settings is correlated with decreased upper mids and top end harmonic content according to my ears... The bottom can tighten up if the tubes used in the preamp will allow a lower bass knob setting, particularly at higher power section output levels.

4) Other 12ax7's I have used and loved the tone in my C-tone SSS are

Philips family shortplate 12ax7's such as:

Philips labeled Mullard Blackburn 12ax7a/7025 shortplate,

Electrohome 12ax7 shortplate (shortplate Amperex Bugle Boy better built)

Siemens ecc83 and 10,000 hour rated e83cc, shortplate, particularly in the PI position.

Telefunken Ribbed plate 12ax7, these often allow some unreal bloom and sustain when used in the PI positon, this tube is among my top two-three faves for a D-clone PI spot for those reasons. Ribbed plate brighter over all than smooth plate, which also works well when taming top end with huge bottom is called for. The 'funkens are among the few great virtuoso violinists in the 12ax7 family when pushed into OD, like VERY few others, a great choice in V2 for non-SSS clones. Interestingly the later produced EI long smooth plate tubes do not have a place in my heart in a d-clone, they don't sound nearly the same when pushed. they do sound great in Mesa Heartbreaker, though.

Another wonderful, very D-sounding 12ax7 is the REAL Tung Sol, huge bottom and slightly rolled off top end, these have a lot of fundamental in their tone palette. They bloom and sing in clean+PAB very sweetly. I like to wrap thise in heat shrink.

And in the JJ thang, look to their daddy's daddy's king daddy's, Tesla e83cc/ecc803s. These make copies of previous tubes' output like none other, smoother on top, these are the cream masters of OD tones of all time. HUGE bottom, much more harmonic content, and 10,000 hour rated buiild. Easily worth the 60-90 bucks to get one, this tube is godly in PI or second tube in a cascading type design.

Longplate 12ax7's by:

sylvania (black and gray)

GE

Raytheon

Ken Rad (early GE)

RCA particularly the cleartops.

Buying the longplate tubes will probably require additional damping devices to aid in comtrolling microphonics. I use IERC tube shields designed for el84's or the Pearl tube coolers. I throw away those stupid=assed metal preamp shields right into the dumpster when I get a new amp that has them in it. They kill tubes from reflecting heat right back into that glass bottle, which becomes slightly more porous at higher operating temps. Contamination of vacuum over time is what kills tubes more quickly than anything else except current draw runaway in a power tube.

I also like to stick on a couple layers of one inch black colored heatshrink all the way up the bottle side from even with the top of the socket flange to the top of the evacuation nipple. As the tube warms up and bottle heat is absorbed by the heatshrink it softens and becomes much more damp after 10 minutes of operating time. If you are worried about RF shielding, don't be. Try it shieldless first to verify.

Reverb?

send/recieve V2/V4 tubes should be strong, nearly new, and IMHO bright sounding in a V1 slot.

Strongest output 12ax7's of all time are the sylvania short and particularly their long grayplate 12ax7's including the Philips ECG milspec ones. These have one of the bassiest bottom ends of any 12ax7 and a bright, agressive top end. Stongly mid scooped Blackface tones,

v3 12at7, Sylvania or GE military spec 6201's still easy to get cheap, often for less than a new crappy 12at7. Last much longer, often have triple micas depending on build.

You should be able to pimp out the pre for less than 200 bucks. I like the new versions of the TAD 6l6gc's, the original GE 6l6 tooling is owned by Groove Tubes now if I'm correct, and their old school tooling GE BP's are highly regarded. Greg Vona has had very good luck with the new TS 6l6gc RI as well.

I had a tight match quad of Svetlana labeled 6l6gc's in my collection, they have lots of the Sylvania 6l6/7581a in their tones.

Tightly matched power tubes deliver more sustain below the limits of clean headroom than grossly mismatched ones. A 5% or less difference between highest and lowest current draw is desireable. I also total up the current draw for both sides of the PP section in a four tube output situation and swap tubes aound until two on each side add up to the least difference in current draw between the sides.

Enjoy!