Why do you like Dumble clean tones?

[ER]

Hi Tictac-

What type of amp do you have the 3-way switch in, and what values do you use the most? I was planing to do a 2-way bright on an early style amp and decided to go with 100 and 500, off in the middle. May end up tweaking it but was looking at typical 70's value and closer to fender/dumbleland.

Thanks, ER

[Structo]

I found bright caps over 120pf to a bit too much on my amps which are a 50w D'lite and a 100w ODS.

I use a 212 with two EVM 12L's.

Right now in the 100w I have a 120pf with the bright on clean only mod.

I like that but I am going to try a 100pf to bring it more in line with the OD channel.

The bright on clean is a worthwhile mod IMHO.
It adds some snap to the clean that really helps the articulation.

It does take another relay but it is simple to wire up.

[ER]

Hi Tom- is this as critical on an HRM amp? 100W (EL-34) will be going with 2-12 EVM also, 70's style clean tone stack, HRM OD stage (hiwatt stack at entrance B4 Vb) and separate clean and OD masters. No preamp feedback loops. I'm already at 4 relays (FET, OD, clean stack lift, HRM lift) not sure if I have room or mA for another.

Thanks, ER

[Structo]

I don't have any experience with the HRM amps.
So I don't know how the clean sounds.
On my amp if I turn the treble up so the clean sounds good and clear, then the OD becomes a bit fizzy/ brittle.
So that is why I utilize the bright on clean.
Scott turned me onto that and I like it a lot in both my non HRM amps.

But I have been tempted to try a HRM.

Probably would do another scratch build for one.

How do you like it? Can you dial in your clean and OD tones better, without compromising the tone of the other?
Since you have a stack for each channel, I would think you can really dial in some great tones.

[pula58]

I don't have any experience with the HRM amps.
So I don't know how the clean sounds.
On my amp if I turn the treble up so the clean sounds good and clear, then the OD becomes a bit fizzy/ brittle.
So that is why I utilize the bright on clean.
Scott turned me onto that and I like it a lot in both my non HRM amps.

But I have been tempted to try a HRM.

Probably would do another scratch build for one.

How do you like it? Can you dial in your clean and OD tones better, without compromising the tone of the other?
Since you have a stack for each channel, I would think you can really dial in some great tones.

I sometimes wonder if a good architecture would be to have completely independent clean and distorted channels. Cause even with an HRM the amount of overdrive is still depending on the volume setting of the clean channel.

[vibratoking]

I have switchable 120pF, 220pF and none on my 183 non HRM build. I prefer the 220pF for sparkly cleans with a strat. I have the strat mod as well. I have an original 65 Super Reverb that has wonderful cleans and I can get very close with my 183 and 220pF cap. BTW, I prefer the SR cleans without bright switch engaged. I find the key to getting good cleans with 183 is make sure the bass knob is not set too high. The clock setting is based on the pot taper so I won't state where I think it should be. Instead, I would say turn the bass all the way down and bring it up until the strat neck pickup sounds full but not boomy with bass. I tend to do this separately for all my guitars. I have one tone control on my strat rewired to control the bridge pickup so that I can tailor the sound.

[pula58]

Comin' back around to original question: "What is it you guys like about Dumble clean tones. Why would you like a Dumble-style clean tone compared to, say, a Fender Blackface clean tone?"

[10thTx]

Typically, (not in every case), I don't like the Fender mid scooped tone and I don't hear the Fender clean sounding as warm and smooth as the Dumble clean which accents a warm smooth midly tone, IMO.

And as others have mentioned the Dumble tone is more dimensional, also IMO.

with respect, 10thtx

[vibratoking]

I like Dumble cleans for several reasons. I can get a clean tone with more mids than a Fender. It's fuller sounding. I can also get a dynamic clean tone that is very clean when picked softly and that kicks into a more dirty territory when picked hard. I can also get this dynamic clean with a Fender, but I can't control the overall volume when I set up a Fender amp for this - it depends on the amp. I can control the overall volume with the Dumble.

EDIT: I also feel I get extended frequency response - especially on the low end.

[Structo]

Yes this is the Dumble dynamics at work.

I don't really notice any dirt on my 100w when I dig in.

It just becomes more percussive or bright when I pick hard.

But I agree with all of you that the Dumble has more mids which is part of it's charm and I really like the clean tone from them a lot.

If you look at the tone stack on a schematic it's not hard to figure out how this happens as the mid and bass work together to form that solid foundation.

[tictac]

My bright switch is setup as below...

I like to have at least 50pF across the volume control...

You can change the 70pF to 50pF which would give you the popular value of 100pF... I really like the 120pF myself, I can't hear the effect of 100pF


TT

[Structo]

Comin' back around to original question: "What is it you guys like about Dumble clean tones.
Why would you like a Dumble-style clean tone compared to, say, a Fender Blackface clean tone?"

I think the main reason we like it besides it sounding nice is that it is paired with
probably the best sounding overdrive around.
Of course that is subjective in itself.
But from what I gather is that you can come real close to that sound with a Fender blackface
and a good overdrive pedal such as the Zen, which is what Robben Ford does when he plays a lot of fly dates.
He sounds real close to his Dumble tone with that setup, of course having magic fingers helps.

Some guys prefer the super bright Marshall tone.
To me it sounds pretty fizzy in the high end.

If you like more of the Marshall tone then perhaps the Dumble Bluesmaster is more your cup of tea.

[Mikka]

Hi,

What I know from my own and humble experience is that when you work on multi channel amp which share the same tone stack and part of the first preamp stage you have to make some compromises.
Thinking about Eric Johnson.

Because I am very "maniac" with my clean crancked tone I always prefere single channel "fenderish" clean amps. After that I tweak my OD pedale to reach my favourite OD tone.

I think simple design amps sound thicker and more truly ... that is Dumble OD clean channel design which is in certain SSS probably !

Whatever it is, I find my dream tone in this king of design, V1a/TS/V1b/V2 for effects loop mostly for reverb, sometime delay and Chorus giving by TC Rack/V3 for PI and V4,V5 for a clean power stage with 6L6, 6550, KT66/88/90 or 6V6 for less power.

Harsh tone sometime comes from speakers and cab !
You also have to concider your component qualitie choice in your amp, tube, resistor (carbon or metal), caps ... and the values to for sure.

All is a kind of good balance and alchimie between each parts of the long channel of your tone from your hand (maybe your soul) to the speaker and your ears ... nothing is simple, there is no truth but you can't do it without respect some approuved rules.

I would like to let a word about the power supply. Too many people doesn't take care enough seriously about that. It's a pity. The PS have great influence on the final tone, headroom and dynamic.

[Mr Dumble]

I am not crazy about Dumble cleans either. Average at best IMO.

[butwhatif]

I like to have a partial brite sw on-which is the brite cap thru a resistor, and 10uf bypass across 2.2k cathode resis on cl 1 & 2. Also 24pf byp on the master. It's a much better cl sound.