Speaker trials - (warning: lengthy, rambling)

[greiswig]

So has anyone else tried the WGS 100 watt Blackhawk? Apparently it is supposed to be pretty similar to an EV SRO, which I have not tried. Or the Sugarcone?

[Structo]

With the open back or semi open (oval port included) the room or stage really plays an important part in the guitar sound.

It really depends on what is behind the cab and how far away it is.

Is it a solid concrete wall?

Is it a thick velvet curtain?

Is it studs/ drywall ?

How close is the wall to the cab?

Then where you point the cab also changes things.

I tend to like having the cab sideways on the stage.

And I suppose all of this can change depending on the PA that is used and how much stage volume you use.

[vibratoking]

In short, I tried many speakers with many different amps. The Sugarcone lives in the Fuchs ODS50 combo. I love that speaker. Very sensitive with good bass, killer mids, and a nice soft high end. I highly recommend the Sugarcone.

I have a bit of land with neighbors far off, so I always go outside to get a truer test of the speakers and cabs. It's a little cold here this time of year for that though. Room effects do change quite a lot and I want to remove that from my listening tests.

[greiswig]

With the open back or semi open (oval port included) the room or stage really plays an important part in the guitar sound.(SNIP)

I hear you, Tom. Actually, I find that the room dimension and construction out front plays an even more important role than the wall behind the cab. Just because of space, we often end up leaning my amp back against a wall. So that's how I tested these speakers. I've been curious to try a Forte 3D cabinet, since it might in effect be similar to what I end up doing anyway, but I'd avoid using the back wall.

To me, what comes out the front of the cab and gets bounced around in the room seems like about 70% of the recipe, and what comes out the back and gets bounced off the wall is 20%, and with a cab like mine the other 10% comes from it. I base this on the fact that I can lean the cabinet up against a sound-absorbing panel in an open room and still hear the majority of what I'd hear if it were leaning up against sheetrock.

But...as we all know here, it's those little 1% changes that we end up working with and tweeking, and they do add up.

[Structo]

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that what was behind the amp was the only effect.
When I use to travel around with our worship team to play different places, the first thing we would do is walk around the room we were to play in and clap our hands to see how lively the room was.
The worst was a large, round shaped room.
It had so many echoes and returns it was without a doubt the worst we experienced.

And of course what we hear while playing our amp is not what the audience hears at all.
Ideally you should be able to walk out into the room while playing.
A wireless makes this possible.
Or have a mate play your guitar and amp while you walk around the room.

[boldaslove6789]

Here's the speakers I've been using lately with my 100w Bluesmaster:

2 x 12" EvM-12-L's in a oval ported d-style cab

I started with 1 of these and really was digging the sound of it. I had problems with headroom as my main amp is a 100w 'er and I play really loud . I switched to 2 Ev's shortly after. Two Ev's are optimal for cleans and great for HRM style overdrive.

2 x 12" Celestion G1265's in an oval ported d-style cab

Also started with 1 of these in a 1x12 cab and really disliked it as it did not have the optimal clean headroom I was looking for in a speaker. After having the speaker sit there for months I decided to throw 2 in a cab I had and I really started to like the way the G1265's are with the OD.

The Celestion's are great for Overdrive and the Ev's are great for cleans but somewhat lack what the g65's can offer. They're both great speakers although

I have two 1x12's I use with a 64' BF Bandmaster with a Skyliner stack I modded.

One with a Tonetubby "Hempcone"

One with a Eminence "Texas Heat" ( I use this for small gigs with my 100w 'er sometimes too. Great fat sounding speaker for Grab- N -Go gigs

[David Root]

I started with a pair of 16 ohm Altec 417B that I got from Tony, in an Avatar 2x12 oval back cab, wired in parallel. Nice clean & warm.

Then I built my 70's ODS 50W combo with '67 Bassman iron, with another Altec 417B, this time 8 ohm, and a satellite 1x12 Avatar oval open back cabwith a second 8 ohm Altec 417B. This my best Dumble so far.

Then I took a '60s 2x15 bass cab, replaced the the two JBL D140F with two JBL E130 and screwed the back on again. Awesome clean! I use it as my reference cabinet when building. "Authoritative" describes it adequately!

The E130s have sort of replaced my red 4x12 slant halfstack with four Delta Pro 12A which is still a nice cab and absolutely indestructible with a 1600W RMS cab rating!

Finally I got a Boogafunk TL806 and put an old EV12L in it. Nice and small with my 100W #124 head. Thinking of getting a Fane Studio 12L as the EV has a little bit of fizz to it.

In non-Dumble builds, I built a brown Vibrolux in a BFDR chassis and settled on a Tone Tubby Alnico in that, very nice speaker. (I also tried the green ceramic Tone Tubby in my original brown '62 Deluxe and didn't like it, I preferred the reconed Oxford). My first build, a 15W all 7-pin Harvard clone has a Weber 12A125 in it and it sounds right.

[Structo]

Here is a pretty good real time speaker comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7t ... r_embedded#!

[Structo]

Check this out, the guy puts a corn starch mixture on a speaker then feeds it a 30 Hz signal.

Pretty freaky!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXN ... re=related

[greiswig]

Check this out, the guy puts a corn starch mixture on a speaker then feeds it a 30 Hz signal.

Pretty freaky!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXN ... re=related

That's just what my playing feels like sometimes.

[JD0x0]

I rolled the dice on a weber P12Q(alnico) and a custom "my tone" basicly I aimed for a hybrid between the celestion gold and g12-65. I ended up with the 65's dustcap, 55hz cone, 65 watts, alnico magnet, 1 3/4 voice coil. The blend is heavenly with the brighter jensen and darker custom. Not beamy at all, extremly 3D sounding with a pretty balanced EQ. Cab was a weber 2x12 convertable. Couldnt be happier considering I only had a general idea what the speakers would sound like before I bought them.

Also got a 10'' Michigan w/ alnico magnet. I believe weber stopped producing these but it's basicly a 10'' EVM that I use in my baby leslie cab. Weighs about 24lbs and most of that is the speaker.

[martin manning]

Has anyone tried a MESA 1x12 Thiele with C90? Thieles are mostly favored by jazz-types, I think... It's the speaker and the cab together, really, right?

[Bob-I]

Has anyone tried a MESA 1x12 Thiele with C90? Thieles are mostly favored by jazz-types, I think... It's the speaker and the cab together, really, right?

I played through one briefly at an open mike night I used to play. The bass player had one and I plugged my HRM into it for 3 songs. It sounded good but I went back to my 2x12 with WGS V30 and G12H copies.

[greiswig]

Has anyone tried a MESA 1x12 Thiele with C90? Thieles are mostly favored by jazz-types, I think... It's the speaker and the cab together, really, right?

Not specifically with a C90, but I've tried a Thiele 1x12 before with an EV in it. It always strikes me as an "impressive for the size" type of thing, like you'd be hard pressed to do better out of a 1x12. But I end up preferring a 2x12.

[greiswig]

Update after a couple of gigs. The Sugarcone, as much as I want to like it, ends up sounding odd when it is perched next to me on stage. I love it on its own in a room, and it has a gooey gnarl to the mids that is really kind of pleasing, but to my ear the Scumback M75 wins over it. There is a presence in the high-mids on the Scumback and the G12-65 that I miss when I'm using the Sugarcone, and the Sugarcone/M75 pairing doesn't quite fix that.

I think part of it may just be that the Sugarcone has more "throw," that it beams the highs out farther and narrower because of the design. One experiment I'd like to try is putting a diffuser in front of it that sends me more of the highs when I'm standing next to it. That may help, but may create its own issues.

So for now, I'm going with the M75/Blackhawk mix, although I may go back to the Scumnico at some point.

I say all this realizing that the cab sounds very different to someone 50' away, but I end up being distracted and fighting my tone. For the kind of gigs I play, nobody else in the room cares about tone nearly as much as I do, so I'll do it for me.