Dumble direction for Strat

[Max]

This "What Dumble for a Paul and what Dumble for a Strat?" is always hard to understand for me:

Of course I know, that Alexander tailored the sound of his custom made amps to suit best the playing styles, instruments and tastes of his customers.

But on the other hand:
I play both kind of guitars and with all the original Dumble amps I really never had any problem to get a great tone with only one kind of guitar. And I don't know any other Dumble player who ever told me to have problems to get a great tone out of their Dumble with all their guitars.
Of course you may want to readjust some pots and switches. But myself, and the other Dumble players I know and talk to too, never felt the need to change the internal "trigger" pot e. g. (would not be possible with most of the "silverface" amps anyway, as these don't have an adjustable "trigger") when changing from a Humbucker to a single coil guitar.

And remember, how much many here liked the clips Gregor Hilden once posted here and all recorded with the same Dumble ODS but very different guitars.

And remember how often Robben Ford e. g. changes between a Humbucker guitar and a Tele without even touching one of the pots of his ODS.

Of course I liked some Dumbles a bit more than others, because they have been more in accord to my personal taste, but this never was a question of: This is great with a Strat and this is great with a Paul. All I liked I always liked with both kinds of guitars and all I did like a bit less I liked a bit less with both kinds of guitar too. Just my own personal impressions and those of some other players I know of course.

All the best

Max

[honeydip]

I was playing around with my d-style build and came to the conclusion that a 0.047uF Mid Cap in Combination with 5uF and 10uF on the cathodes ov V1 and a bright switch of 270pF works perfectly with a strat. You get a medium thick tone with a strat now and it brings out a lot of those srv rhythm tone that I love. My amp is a non-hrm.

Jan

[talbany]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyu02nnuQqM

This Strat sounds pretty good don't get me wrong.. BUT!! I'll take his Les Paul or 335 or even the 60's Tele...Anyone!!
Tony

[marcos]

I agree with Max: This discussion seems really strange to me.
Of course all Dumble circuits work well with a Strat.
I understand the man himself was primarily a Strat player, so I guess he would voice his amps for use with single coils first, but as Max has pointed out time and again, Dumbles and many D-Style amps are really versatile musical instruments, and can be made to work with many guitars, and in many musical styles.
So, it all comes down to personal taste in the end.
So I would not try to stick to a certain formula, but rather try the different circuits and let the ears decide.
Granted, this will take some time.
I would like to add that Tony´s contributions are always well-founded and
worth investigating
Have fun Marcos

[TheHandsomeOrk]

Not sure if I'd like the idea of dcv on the switch, think i'd tap it after the .05 cap. But to each his own.

I agree about having the OD Gain Trimmer on the back panel.
I removed one of the speaker jacks and put it there.
What I ended up doing was use a 50KB pot, and a 2K7 resistor to ground.
What that did for me was put the desirable settings from 10:00 to 1:00.
I labeled it so the setting is the resistance from wiper to ground with a 20 25 30.( that is kilo ohms)
I put a chicken head knob on it so I can reach around and feel it if I can't see it.

Also having the mid cap switchable on the back panel is a cool feature to have.
You can have a .05uF mid cap on the board and a .01uF on the switch.
So the .05uF would help the strat and the .01uF for humbuckers.
I recently did this and like it a lot.

When the .01uF cap is in series with the .05uF the amp sees .0083uf.
If you need closer to .01uF you can use a .02uF
When the switch shorts out the .01uF the amp sees .05uF.

You can change the .01uF value around if you want to change the total C.

I labeled the switch FAT and THIN.

[thyx]

I personally think the high plates sound better on both clean and the OD stages.

We think alike, in some ways...but here we differ. The higher the plate resistance in these kinds of gain stages, the lower the overall distortion...BUT...what distortion remains is more third-order than second-order. As you go through the amp, the gain, AND the third-order distorion, compound. Too much third-order and the amp begins to sound cold. I couold see going with high plate for OD and low plate for cleans...maybe even the other way around. But all plates high will leave the amp so cold (to my ear) that I'll feel like I'm playing in outer space. It may work out OK for a single-ended Class A design...but with Class A/B push-pull in the power section, too cold for me.

[wjdunham]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyu02nnuQqM

This Strat sounds pretty good don't get me wrong.. BUT!! I'll take his Les Paul or 335 or even the 60's Tele...Anyone!!
Tony

Tony, that's a wonderful clip, and some would say that's the way a strat is supposed to sound with a D style amp. But to my ears it's just a bit too thin, especially when he's on the bridge pickup playing single notes. This may be sacrilege in this forum, but when I think of a strat sound, I think Jeff Beck plugged in to his Marshalls, which is why I always have to tweak my builds to get them the way I like. Why don't I just use a Marshall then? The thing I love about this circuit is that it can cover a far wider range, the clean channel is completely different, and the OD can go from barely overdriven to fat and saturated. Out of the box, I got that with Humbuckers, but so far (three builds) have had to tune to get it with a strat.

Max and Marcos, I hear what you are saying, that noone ever complains about the real thing, but to me even the real thing is a bit thin, but that's just me. FWIW, I had a chance to play a TR Opal (HRM) and that was a different animal than any of my non HRM's. Had it not been $4500 I would have walked out of the shop with it. Very full bodied and warm.

Bill

[Structo]

Not sure if I'd like the idea of dcv on the switch, think i'd tap it after the .05 cap. But to each his own.

Can you elaberate on this?
I thought this was an accepted mod?
I haven't noticed anything bad about this.

[Max]

I would like to add that Tony´s contributions are always well-founded and
worth investigating
Have fun Marcos

Indeed! Someone should really buy some nails and close his windows!

@talbany:

Tony, do you really think, that your kids will still recognize one of your ODRs as a device made to achieve a fat sound with their Strats?:

http://www.rockbandstore.com/detail.php ... n-3_guitar

Have fun

Max

[doveman]

Related to this discussion I think:

I have an LP, 335, Tele that are perfect with my D'Lite. I have to turn up the initial volume on the amp just a tad for the Tele. Now if I run the Strat, I have to bump the volume just a bit more. It's still not quite right. I've considered running an Xotic RC (clean boost) just on the Strat. You have the option to add a touch of gain or +/- both treble and bass. Mind you it doesn't take much but that works pretty well too as long as it's not overdone.

Anybody else?

[wjdunham]

So far the best tweak I have found for my strat is to lift the mid pot with either 220K or 270K to ground. Some call this a "raw" boost, but I don't find it to be a real boost, it really just fattens up the mids. It's a lot more subtle than the skyliner midboost. Unlike some, I do not also lift the bass pot with this resistor, just the mid pot. As an added bonus, it makes for a smooth transition when I hit the PAB.

I've not had much success with changing the mid cap to .02 or .047. Changing the slope resistor to 100K really muddied up the sound, I think it requires the OD entrance highpass (.02) to make it work in a #124 configuration with 10uf V1 bypass caps.
Bill

[talbany]

First off how I read the question posted is
"If I were to build a dumble type amp exclusively for a Strat, what direction should I go?"
Exclusively!!..Keyword...This isn't the first time this topic's been discussed here w/ relation to Strats and is very much subjective!!

I never said I thought a Strat sounded bad or thin through any of my Dumble style amps although opinions will very...I am just more partial to buckers..
Most if not all of my responces here have been what changes or features I would add (or made accessible) that I thought made my strats sound better or I thought actually helped achieve more tonal variations (with respect to some of the postings here) with it that's all...
With respect to the different topologies.. we all can agree I think Strats sound different than Pauls sound different than Teles.. Throw in all the variations of the Dumble designs your going to get some opinions from a clown like me!!.. Just one man's view..Right Now I have 11 different Dumble style amps in my personal stable.. I build them all by hand and won't part with one of them...I also have 4 Strats and 2 Pauls..

Hey Max!! Going to need more than a few nails to keep that window shut!!..Anyone got a Blow torch.. LOL!!..Oh!! The crack was at my Kids not the ODR by the way.. I am sure it will sound wonderful.. All The Best too..

Tony

[Structo]

Not sure if I'd like the idea of dcv on the switch, think i'd tap it after the .05 cap. But to each his own.

Can you elaborate on this?
I thought this was an accepted mod?
I haven't noticed anything bad about this.

Anybody have an alternative to switching the different mid caps in and out?
I measured the voltage today and there was over 200v DC there at the mid cap and slope resistor junction.
Can this be done successfully on the front end of the mid cap?

[mlp-mx6]

Yes, you can switch the AC-only side of the cap.

On my first ODS build I had 2 mid caps on the board and a switch that selected the output of one or the other. No DC on the switch whatsoever.

If you're running series from the board to your switch, and you're selecting from the AC-only side of the cap on the board, you should have no DC on your switch either.

Perhaps I'm not understanding the question...?

[ChrisM]

Not sure if I'd like the idea of dcv on the switch, think i'd tap it after the .05 cap. But to each his own.

Can you elaborate on this?
I thought this was an accepted mod?
I haven't noticed anything bad about this.

Anybody have an alternative to switching the different mid caps in and out?
I measured the voltage today and there was over 200v DC there at the mid cap and slope resistor junction.
Can this be done successfully on the front end of the mid cap?

Yeah I didn't realize there was a HV DC on one side of the cap when I had wires with alligator clips coming from my amp. I was quite surprised when I put a cap in parallel using the alligator clips. Ended up touching around 200V. Woke me up.

Anyways what I do is I add a cap in parallel to the stock 10nF cap. I use a 50nF cap. I attach one lead of the cap to the DC side and use a simple SPST switch to break the cap's connection to the other side of the 10nF cap. No DC on the switch! (hardly any voltage at all actually).

Now 10nF in parallel with 50nF is 60nF not 47nF like the typical "strat" value. I find the difference between 10nF and 47nF subtle (like others). 60nF make the difference more noticeable, that is a + in my opinion. You can really hear the difference in OD mode.