so how did I do?

[dr. who]

This big issue is that I can't find the page in RDH4 where it covers all of the gooping...geez which color goo for which type of circuit?

[ayan]

Yeah the cloning debate always makes me chuckle.

It's actually cloning the clones to be accurate.

I wonder if Jim Marshall or Leo Fender were ever asked if they were copying circuits?

I share the same feeling about the many -- and I mean many -- people complaining that others clone, while they do so themselves and claim that they are exempted from crticism for whatever reason.

One thing, however, is that I'm always left wondering when I hear people say that tube amps were invented in the 30s and that everyone copied from there. I have yet to see the schematic for anything that looks remotely close to and ODS in the old handbooks. Not to sound like an asswipe, but if you could point me to a reference for that, I would appreciate it -- seriously. Even taking the old Fender amps for granted, anyone here believes that there was nothing unique to what Dumble did? If so, I would beg to differ. So maybe some people moved the Dumbleator inside of the amp, or lost the buffering stage for that, or added reverb, or made the mid switch footswitchable, or used a fixed network before the OD instead of a trimmer, etc. Still... has anyone not copied everything else, starting with the architecture of the amps (I still believe Dumble was the first guy to put 2 OD stages after the 2 clean stages), the switching functions, the component values and often the component types too? Show me a "new" design from any on of use cloners and I bet you there is a story of yet was another Dumble found, degooped and copied behind it.

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed by how much the bar has been raised thanks to there being so many people building this type of amp nowadays, and no doubt I think it's taken commendable effort by everyone tinkering with this stuff to get there. But while I believe whining about the "cloning" thing is basically pathetic, I find anyone claiming any originality in this is downright insulting.

Cheers,

Gil

[Structo]

Yeah, you're right Gil as far as the uniqueness of Dumble's design.

I think the basic cathode biased preamp circuits were designed years ago as well as the various phase inverters and power stages.

I didn't mean to suggest that these guys flopped open a tube manual and their amp was right there in a schematic for them to build from.

Leo Fender was such a great tinkerer that he really strived to create amps that the western swing crowd would love.

Funny that he had trouble creating a clean output at high volume but if he had we might not have been drawn to the great distorted sounds that rock and roll depends so much on.

I guess a good designer takes all those bits and pieces from the tube manuals and puts together an amp that achieves a certain tone that is unique to that brand.

You know far more than I do about the Dumble amps that have been produced.
I've never even been in the same room as a real Dumble.

All I know is after listening to Robben Ford or other Dumble users ( and I didn't realize how many there were) I really wanted an amp like that.
So when I discovered Brown Note was making the D'Lite kits available, I just had to have one.
It has changed quite a bit from what the stock kit came with but it is still a great platform to tweak to ones desire.

The ODS design has the best overdrive I've ever played through and it is just such a great amp I always return to it regardless of what other amps I acquire.

[ayan]

Yeah, you're right Gil as far as the uniqueness of Dumble's design.

I think the basic cathode biased preamp circuits were designed years ago as well as the various phase inverters and power stages.

Sure, that much is true. However, since all tube amps share that much, the use of those common building blocks clearly cannot be what sets one amp apart from the next.

Gil

[Sonny ReVerb]

My two cents - I believe this forum was created to share information in an effort to clone, tweak, and/or modify Dumble and Trainwreck amps. Those amps had their origins in Fender and Vox designs. Clone > tweak > clone > mod ... The last revolution in amplifier design was before most of us were born. The rest has been evolution.

Again, the purpose of the forum is to share information. Brandon has shared (thank you) and most likely received a lot of information here. The problem is when a hobby turns commercial and shared information becomes proprietary.

"so how did I do?" Well, let's consider a parallel thread you might have noticed.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=78506#78506

Someone can answer some, if not all of their questions. However, that's become proprietary information.

'The Amp Garage - A tube amp builder's community', not 'A tube amp seller's community'.

Come here to share information and learn, not hawk your wares.

[talbany]

I share the same feeling about the many -- and I mean many -- people complaining that others clone, while they do so themselves and claim that they are exempted from crticism for whatever reason. Question

One thing, however, is that I'm always left wondering when I hear people say that tube amps were invented in the 30s and that everyone copied from there. I have yet to see the schematic for anything that looks remotely close to and ODS in the old handbooks. Not to sound like an asswipe, but if you could point me to a reference for that, I would appreciate it -- seriously. Even taking the old Fender amps for granted, anyone here believes that there was nothing unique to what Dumble did? If so, I would beg to differ. So maybe some people moved the Dumbleator inside of the amp, or lost the buffering stage for that, or added reverb, or made the mid switch footswitchable, or used a fixed network before the OD instead of a trimmer, etc. Still... has anyone not copied everything else, starting with the architecture of the amps (I still believe Dumble was the first guy to put 2 OD stages after the 2 clean stages), the switching functions, the component values and often the component types too? Show me a "new" design from any on of use cloners and I bet you there is a story of yet was another Dumble found, degooped and copied behind it.

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed by how much the bar has been raised thanks to there being so many people building this type of amp nowadays, and no doubt I think it's taken commendable effort by everyone tinkering with this stuff to get there. But while I believe whining about the "cloning" thing is basically pathetic, I find anyone claiming any originality in this is downright insulting.

Cheers,

Gil

I for one appreciate Gil's presence on this Form..
He doesn't attempt to profit from any shared ideas here.. 2 He has given here more than his fair share...#124.. 3 He is well respected here 4.. He was the first to be vocal in sharing info about these amps here and on other forums..
I don't want to take sides here... Hell we've all started threads or made comments that you read later and go what was I thinking..... I think he does a great job at keeping things from getting out of control...There is a scary amount of talent here and with it comes strong opinions and in some cases well deserved ego's... Thanks Gil...You have earned my respect keep it up..


Tony VVT

[M Fowler]

Sonny ReVerb,

If your talking about selling or buy chassis and faceplates? Well then I am guilty and don't care either. If I am going to attempt to make my version of a SSS I need a chassis and faceplate to start with. Not sure what part of that thread link you were referrring to. https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=78506#78506

How come everyone can sell and build Fenders and Marshalls all they want but we are critized for building Dumbles?

Mark

[titanicslim]

It's funny, you know. I was just thinking... at some far future stardate, there shall be numerous interweb forums dedicated to discovering the secrets of the "Amp Garage Group" and our designs.

Don't you think so? I mean, won't it be funny when they are "cloning" my amps and arguing about how to reproduce the exact shade of green masking tape and Sharpie ink that I'd used on my control panels. Clapton will probably have one...

[talbany]

It's funny, you know. I was just thinking... at some far future stardate, there shall be numerous interweb forums dedicated to discovering the secrets of the "Amp Garage Group" and our designs.

This is without a doubt a great place!!!

[drew]

That photo was missing a little something-something . . .

[dr. who]

And the bandana!!!

[mauiboy81]

Is that you Funk? I have a hard time not picturing Mr. Miyagi catching flies with chopsticks and then turning around to post tube amp wisdom to the young disciples when I read your posts.

[Sonny ReVerb]

If your talking about selling or buy chassis and faceplates? Well then I am guilty and don't care either. If I am going to attempt to make my version of a SSS I need a chassis and faceplate to start with. Not sure what part of that thread link you were referring to.

Sorry Mark, that's not what I meant. I was only referring to the circuit design. Offering chassis, boards, or parts close to cost (as Brandon has, also) is still sharing as far as I'm concerned. That's similar to a group buy set up by an individual. It benefits the group.

The only complaint I have is flaunting an amp which is available for sale on a builder's forum which is searching for information on that very amp.

[M Fowler]

Since I don't know an ODS or Skyliner or all the other jargon I think I will just start with a Fender Twin into SVT power section and fill all the holes in the front faceplate and rear plate with Fender two tube reverb, OD section, variable cap tone section and see what the hell I can come up with. A Mark SSS if you will. Don't know what else to do. I collected a hell of a lot of layouts, schematics and notes from all of you so with your help I should be able to come up with something.

Mark

[Funkalicousgroove]

If your talking about selling or buy chassis and faceplates? Well then I am guilty and don't care either. If I am going to attempt to make my version of a SSS I need a chassis and faceplate to start with. Not sure what part of that thread link you were referring to.

Sorry Mark, that's not what I meant. I was only referring to the circuit design. Offering chassis, boards, or parts close to cost (as Brandon has, also) is still sharing as far as I'm concerned. That's similar to a group buy set up by an individual. It benefits the group.

The only complaint I have is flaunting an amp which is available for sale on a builder's forum which is searching for information on that very amp.

I did help on that thread, I don't owe anyone here anything. This thread was about the picture. If you want to know what's in a SSS do what I did- Get your hands on one and reverse engineer it. As I stated earlier, I have no issues with sharing what I know with people I know aren't going into business, but I noticed an awful lot of folks selling_____-u-Lators after I posted my step by step how-to. Tell me Sonny, what have YOU contributed here??