Ceriatone OTS not loud

[docmh]

I have a new Ceriatone OTS 50 watt. I'm new to D style amps. At my band practice, the clean channel is not very loud. If I have the master at 12 oclock and the clean vol. at 12:00, or even both at 3 oclock you can barely hear the amp in the rock setting. On the jazz setting is the most anemic thin sound. We play blues and R&B and I never have any of my other Fender amps past 3 or 4, so we're not a loud band. The only way the amp acts normal is if the master is turned all the way up, and the clean vol. at 3 or more. I know that's how master volume amps work, but is this normal for this amp? I read somewhere this just adds distortion to the clean channel. I'm using SED wing C's at 35mv and tungsol reissue preamp tubes. All the tubes are lit up and work fine in other amps. I've looked up pics of other D style amps on stages and most look like the pre and master are between 11:00 and 1 oclock. Am I doing something wrong? Is the amp working right? I haven't even tried to dial in the overdrive channel, but I have the OD trimmer at 10 oclock and the phase inverter trimmer at noon, so I think the amp is set up right.

[erwin_ve]

This is not right. Did you build the amp yourself?
If not you should contact Ceriatone.

[nickm57]

I run the "volume" on about 6-8 depending on the guitar.
rock setting, bright and deep off.
Master on about 3-4 after that it's too loud.
The "master" sort of mirrors the "volume" of a non master amp.
Use the volume to get the desired gain. at 6-7 you should still be clean on the clean channel.
Also I found a 2x12 a fair bit louder on stage than a 1X12.
Nick

[Structo]

It should be pretty loud with both volume and master at noon.

[butwhatif]

U say anemic---what cabinet r u running thru, does it work ok w/ other amps? If it's new make sure you have the speakers in phase if there's more than 1, and make sure the speaker cable isn't at all shorted.

[fullerplast]

Relative to my Two Rock, Fuchs, and D'Lite amps, the OTS is at least as loud or louder, so it's not inherent with the amp. I don't find noon on the vol and master to be especially loud either...on any of the amps, but that's all relative. Turn them up and it will blow your hair back.

Several things to consider:

Speaker efficiency makes a huge difference.

You are ultimately trying to seek a balance between OD and clean (assuming you want to use both). With that in mind, you need to set up your clean channel first. If that means turning up the vol and master, then it's OK to turn them past noon. I often run the vol at 7 and master at 5 or 6. After that, you set up your OD level and ratio to get the level you want....usually a bit higher than the clean level.

Finally, don't underestimate the impact of the OD trim pot. Just tiny changes between 9:00 and 10:00 are very significant in both level and character of the OD. If you find that you need to set the front panel OD level fairly low, then you may be too high on the trim pot. It's the single most significant OD adjustment you can make IMHO.

[tubedogsmith]

I don't know what pots are used in that amp but the last bunch of CTS 1 megs I got have a super slow taper. Not much happens until the last quarter of the throw and then it's all at once.

[glasman]

I had one on my bench about a week ago. The most it would do at 8 ohms was about 31 watts. This was with two different different sets of output tubes (one that is known to do at least 48W). I didn't go into too deep, but probably the OT. The voltages were about right.

Gary

[docmh]

Thanks for the replies. I'm running the amp through Red White and Blue Speakers. The 2x12 is a little louder than a 1x12, but not much. I've swapped speakercables etc. The amp runs nothing like some of the replies in this thread. Guess I'll write Nik at Ceriatone and see if he can help me. I had the amp built by Ceriatone sans tubes. I'm not a tech, but the wiring looks really clean, and I don't see anything obvious that is wrong.
Even if voltage is not really 50 watts, I trhink it should be louder than it is. I have a 36 watt EL84 amp that's loud as hell, and I can't turn my little Music Man112 RD 50 past 4 on the volume knob, without my ears bleeding, although that one is 50 watts.

[Structo]

Realistically probably around 40-45 watts depending on the plate voltage and output transformer.

I know that when I put the Prosonic OT in my D'Lite (2x6L6) it seemed louder than it had been, and that was loud!

I mean that two 6L6GC power tubes pumped up should just about blister the paint on the walls.

I don't get a lot of opportunities to crank it due to the little wifey being around most of the time, but when I do, I know the neighbors can hear me........

[Grog]

I run mine through a 4 by 10 cabinet, and it will rip like you wouldn't believe. Loud as a blackface super, or my 64 Vibroverb. Something's amiss with your's.

[JimiB]

did you bias it properly?

[Normster]

Just a few thoughts based on things I've screwed up in the past...

Make sure the OPT secondary ground has a good ground connection and that the speaker jack is also grounded.

Make sure you're plugged into the "Main" speaker jack. If you're in the Extension jack, the signal is being sent to ground.

+1 on CTS pot taper. Alphas are 15% taper, CTS are 10% taper. With Alpha pots, I set the volume between 12 and 2 o'clock. With CTS it's more like 1 to 3 o'clock. Start with tone controls at 12 o'clock. The amp should be pretty loud with the Master between 10 and 12 o'clock.

If all else fails, send it back to Nik. It may have a high frequency oscillation that's robbing the amp of power. Very hard to track down without a scope.

[bluesfendermanblues]

.... It may have a high frequency oscillation that's robbing the amp of power. Very hard to track down without a scope.

How can you see high freq oscillation on a scope - how to do that??

[fullerplast]

I had one on my bench about a week ago. The most it would do at 8 ohms was about 31 watts. This was with two different different sets of output tubes (one that is known to do at least 48W). I didn't go into too deep, but probably the OT. The voltages were about right.

Gary

Curious how you are measuring this Gary? Quiescient power with a plate voltage of about 440V and a bias current of 35mA will give you 31W for any dual 6L6 amp. (As I'm sure you know, once you start measuring with a signal, then you need to specify the frequency and the distortion at which you measure.) IOW, 1% THD vs 0.1% THD yield *very* different powers, and are not necessarily significant in a guitar amp, except on a relative basis. Also not sure what you mean by power tubes "doing" 48W....did you re-bias the amp to take advantage of that capability (set them to 55mA @ 440V)?

The OT is pretty substantial, so I'd be surprised if it was a bottleneck in the power transfer, but I am curious as to your measurements.

To the OP, you still haven't really said if the amp gets loud as you turn up both the master and the vol.....so I'm still not sure if you are complaining about the taper of the pots or the ultimate volume levels. With the MV maxed and the vol maxed, your ears should be bleeding.... I don't find setting everything at 12:00 to be especially loud in a band setting at all, and that goes for any of the D-type amps I've owned.