Line level clips for Re-amping

[stelligan]

mdroberts1243 threw out the idea a while back of listening to many amps with the same guitar signal for comparison. Re-amping is done commonly where the dry line feed from a guitar is re-amped through another rig or a plug in. I finally recorded some dry clips of guitars I own. This may help you hear your amp with a guitar that you may not own or have access to. Odourboy has done a clip on his amp that turned out pretty well, so I am opening up these files for widespread tinkering. The playing is VERY sloppy. This is an exhibition, not a competition - Please! No wagering.......

1968 stop tailpiece 345 with Duncans (bridge):
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/345.mp3

1958 Danelectro U1:
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/58Dano.mp3

1990's American Strat(flipped from middle - to Neck - to bridge):
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/Strat.mp3

Maple neck tele MIM(bridge):
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/Tele.mp3

Squier Esprit with 80's Howard Roberts Fusion humbuckers(bridge):
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/Esprit.mp3

Backing track with vocal:
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/politVOCAL.mp3

Backing track without vocal:
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/politBACKER.mp3

And here is the 345 reamped in my DAW with Line6 amp plugin - cranked Dual Showman with TubeScreamer and echo:
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/politPOD.mp3

This is a "Politician" clip **GASP**:shock:

[ic-racer]

I'm going to admit some ignorance here about this, so help me out.

Certainly I understand the concept and it really would be great to 'tweak' while a machine plays through the amp, but I never thought it was a feasible idea because there was no device which can feed the signal into the amp. First, it seems the dynamic range would be beyond most recording gear. Second, when a guitar is plugged into an amp, basically there is then a coil with a magnet through it connected to the control grid of V1. I thought the only way to duplicate that is with some mechanism like a player piano that plucks the strings of a guitar.

Perhaps you are suggesting that the signal is just fed in with whatever integrated circuit op-amp is available in the output end of the reproduction equipment and the result 'is-what-it-is' and it would just serve as a somewhat limited comparison tool, right? If thats the case, how are you doing it? Just plugging an MP3 player into the amp input? I'd certainly like to try it.

[Stanz]

A brief run down of what re-amping is.

You record a guitar through an amp as you would normally, mic in front of speaker. BUT, what you also do is capture a second recording of the signal straight from the guitar, usually through a nice D.I. so you will have two signals. The reason you want to record it with the amp playing is because there is interplay between the output of the speakers and the pickups on the guitar. This will be captured on the D.I. track.

The re-amping process is to take the track with the D.I. input and put it into an amp. It needs to be run through, you guessed it, a Re-Amp box, which matches loads and such that it will appear to the amp that it is the same as the signal coming out of your guitar. The advantage is that you can take a killer track and twiddle knobs, switch amps/speaker till your heart's content, or the group has decided to kill you because they have now heard the same track for 2 hours straight, which ever come first.

For this forum, it would serve as a nice tool because you can take one performance (variable) that will remain constant, while making changes on a circuit or trying different tubes, speakers etc. It would eliminate the playing as a variable in the sound you are trying to judge.

[stelligan]

I am not affiliated with Radial in any way. I do, however, dig their devices. I own the passive blue one. A very cool tool. Invaluable if you have a hot player that costs you money to hire. You can re-amp the performance after the fact. You can also play a loop through the amp you are tweaking. It is you - playing your amp - while you twist trimmers and clip lead capacitors, etc..

http://www.radialeng.com/re-prormp.htm
http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm

[ic-racer]

Cool! Thanks guys.

Of, course now I wonder...how can I build that thing...

[stelligan]

It would eliminate the playing as a variable in the sound you are trying to judge.

This is the only bug-a-boo in the whole works. Because in the mind - hand - guitar - amp - ear - mind "loop" there is constant adjustment and editing. Example: once you goose the OD entrance trimmer, the feel of the amp changes and so will the way you may have attacked your string. So, what once was the perfect "performance" by the "player" perhaps would have changed with your tweak. I cool concept to tinker with none the less.

[odourboy]

Here's the re-amped clip I did that Mr. Stelligan refers in his first post just to give you an idea of how this can work.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=6632372

Here's some info. on the recording:
Dry Clip is of Stelligan's ES-345
Amp is a nonHRM 6V6 build with OD (no PAB)
Loop has a D-Lator with light room reverb and Nova delay in it
Cab is a TL806 style with a Celestion Century G12 (Neo) speaker
Single mic - cheap chinese ribbon (Apex 210) at 24" slightly angled and off center.

No post processing done at all other than level matching.

I had to manually synchronise the reamped recording to the backing track and you might find them off by a hair (sorry! I'll try to do better next time).

I think this is a really cool concept and I hope that a few others with some really good chops can contribute some dry clips to the group> I would if i could but I can't.

[Stanz]

This is the only bug-a-boo in the whole works. Because in the mind - hand - guitar - amp - ear - mind "loop" there is constant adjustment and editing.

Yes, this can work two ways, good and bad. It does eliminate the interaction and response of the amp as you are playing, which is a definite factor in the set up. On the flip side, I find that my judgment of fine details in the sound is severely effected when I am playing, vs. when I am listening to something while not playing, where I end up hearing much more detail. I find that the emotion exhibited while playing colors perception in a huge way, as well as simply having to concentrate on playing which draws attention away from listening, at least listening to subtle details.

Like any other tool, you need to know when to use it. I think it is great idea.

And +1 on the Radial Re-Amp box. Quality gear.

[mdroberts1243]

Thank-you Stelligan for posting these 'dry' clips!

I've attached a couple of takes... recorded from my BluesMaster 100W build (Sunnyland values), two speakers in TL806-like cabinets (Cannabis Rex and RW&B), the C-Rex was close-mic'd with a SM57. PAB and OD on, so the tone-stack was pretty much out of the picture.

The input level and OD drive level was boosted slightly for the Strat. The bright switch was on for the 345.

The recording is 'dry' there was no post-processing (other than mixing in the backing track) and the backing track was kept in the back

[stelligan]

Mark & Brian,

It's a real hoot hearing these clips through other folks amps!! Thanks for posting your clips and for prompting me to do this. I should have paid more attention to my playing - Yikes! I can't wait to "play" through a Bludotone, Glaswerks, or RedPlate!!! Just got my other Strat back together with the guts from my childhood axe. It has the innards from a 65/66 small headstock transition Stratocaster - the one pictured in my Avatar. I'll post some line level signals of that guitar later this week or next. They will likely be some other tune or just some noodling.

Would you guys mind sharing your signal chain from your computer to the amp? I may just ship my reamping box to you as the proper impedance matching is necessary to make your amp "see" these clips as a guitar signal. That said - whatever you are using is doing a credible job. Thanks again for posting your clips. Both amps sound real good!!



Dave

[mdroberts1243]

Mark & Brian,

It's a real hoot hearing these clips through other folks amps!! Thanks for posting your clips and for prompting me to do this. I should have paid more attention to my playing - Yikes! I can't wait to "play" through a Bludotone, Glaswerks, or RedPlate!!! Just got my other Strat back together with the guts from my childhood axe. It has the innards from a 65/66 small headstock transition Stratocaster - the one pictured in my Avatar. I'll post some line level signals of that guitar later this week or next. They will likely be some other tune or just some noodling.

Would you guys mind sharing your signal chain from your computer to the amp? I may just ship my reamping box to you as the proper impedance matching is necessary to make your amp "see" these clips as a guitar signal. Thanks again for posting your clips. Both amps sound real good!!



Dave

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the compliment and thanks again for creating these clips! It is fun to compare 'tone' in this way.
Personally, I use a Zoom Handy H4 in four-track recorder mode. I converted your dry clips to WAV and installed them in a project folder. Using the H4 I can simultaneously 'play' the dry clip out by selecting a particular clip file on a channel (e.g. Track 1) and record using the SM57 on another channel (e.g. Track 4)... you just have to make sure that the monitor level on the recorded channel is set to zero so you don't get feedback.
I adjust the level of the playback by using the headphone output and the headphone volume level. I'm not too concerned with impedance matching as the headphone output is designed for a 32 ohm load.
I use this a lot when I am trying to debug a particular problem on the amp too... you can set the H4 to loop a particular phrase continously.
I also use the H4 as a DI box... just patch the guitar directly into one of the 1/4" inputs and record that dry... take the headphone output to the amp and mic the amp and record that on the other H4 input (XLR). With this simple setup I seem to get a very faithful recording and repeatable results for later tweaking.

In playing with your clips, however, one thing I've noted is some 'artifacts', probably because you provided the clips in 96kbit/s MP3 resolution... it would be nice to have 192kbit/s as the source!

[stelligan]

In playing with your clips, however, one thing I've noted is some 'artifacts', probably because you provided the clips in 96kbit/s MP3 resolution... it would be nice to have 192kbit/s as the source!

Shoot, I thought I had them set at 192. I'll fix that. I think the artifacts might be "suckage" in my playing.........