Wire Propaganda or more fragile harmonics mumbo jumbo?

[heisthl]

http://www.conradamps.com/For_Geeks_Only.html

A quote from the page:
"When your guitar signal passes through the internal wiring in the amp, the leading edge of the signal is “absorbed” by this cheap insulation. This means a loss of harmonics in the signal path.
The technical term for measuring this is “dielectric constant”. PVC insulation has a dielectric constant of 4.6 while the superior teflon insulation has a dielectric constant of only 1.2. In other words the teflon insulation is nearly 4X’s superior than the PVC insulation."

So did HAD use teflon in the amps that are considered "grail" amps?
For some reason I don't think so...

[ryanf]

I know a dielectric constant was how much a capacitor's capatitance increases when a dielectric is inserted. Basically its an insulator that polarizes, increasing the charge a capacitor can hold. I guess it would make sense that an insulator that gets less polarized would be better, but would it make a difference?

[dave g]

If you're running signal wires along the chassis floor, then yeah there's gonna be a little capacitance there; probably along the order of femtofarads. If you were doing high frequency RF then it would be an issue, but at audio frequencies the impact it has depends on how much BS you're willing to buy from Dr. D.

[ic-racer]

If you're running signal wires along the chassis floor, then yeah there's gonna be a little capacitance there; probably along the order of femtofarads. If you were doing high frequency RF then it would be an issue, but at audio frequencies the impact it has depends on how much BS you're willing to buy from Dr. D.

Yes, I was thinking a similar thing. The dielectric constant of a wire with insulator would approach that of Air (1.00054) if no other conductors were near by. The dielectric constant for teflon of 2.1 would have significance only when another conductor was adjacent to or in direct contact with the outer surface of the wire's teflon insulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_constant

[Stanz]

I wonder how much they charge for the privilege of getting Mono-Crystal “Super Wire”? If I get regular solid core wire do I get a discount?

I am sure they sound great. Most tube amps that are well built and have a decent design will sound great, especially if you are playing through one for the first time. That must be their target market, amp newbies.

[Aurora]

The cable debate has been going over the moon with the HiFi geeks for decades. Test have been conducted and measurements made, even theoretical calculations - all showing that this is just nonsense at audio frequencies - and the beleivers still goes on!
Let's put it this way - IF dielectric absorption makes a difference, it will be in the tenths or hundreds of percent. Stray capacitance, inter-wire capacitance influencing tone or stablility will for all practical aspects be similar, whatever the insulation. In a guitar amp, where distortion is a target, - this makes no sense at all - at least not to me ( but then I do understand and accept the practical implementation of theory)
For tube amps, the main advantage in using teflon, is durability and heat resistance. PVC insulation is rated for 60-75 deg C, whereas teflon is rated at 120-150 deg C, a valuable advantage in tube amps.
OTOH - teflon is a real PITA without expensive tools!

[Aurora]

deleted

[nickt]

OTOH - teflon is a real PITA without expensive tools!

That's not true - it's a PITA with ANY tools

[Aurora]

We do use quite a lot of teflon at work....
- My cable stripper costs appx 550$ !

[heisthl]

my $30 stripper consistantly strips down one side of a Teflon wire's insulation so you can manually split off what's left and snip it off. Not the cleanest method but quicker than a razor blade.

[markmalin]

Wow... I'm glad someone actually voiced some of this. I'd been thinking similar things but have been hesitant to say anything.

[brownnote]

Radio Shack sells a wire stripper for $7 that works perfectly for the 20ga teflon that Apex Jr. sells.

[Funkalicousgroove]

I use a plain old strippers like these, and have used teflon exclusively for years, I think I paid $9 for the pair I have about 3 years ago-

[Funkalicousgroove]

BTW, The only Dumble I have ever seen Teflon in was one that was built VERY recently, and it was only teflon here and there, not the whole amp.

[butwhatif]

I worked in the iron mining industry in electrical/instrumentation for 30 years.
The teflon worked well there, and took the heat, grease, oil, solvents, cutting torch slag, cold, except when you were out on a shovel at -30F trying to strip a wire someone snagged. But in a guitar amp, please kick me if ever I try to use it.
The stray capacitance between a wire and a chassis pretty much comes to play when there is a bunch of hi freq in the circuit-like in a Marshall, or a hi gain architecture that might produce a lot of hf, vhf, or rf. I think there are other ways to tame it than with the wiring. Relying on wire placement to get a sound also produces microphonic stuff, as the wires and components are also vibrating. But, what do I know, this issue will never resolve--- my $ .023