Has anybody tried a 250kA OD Level in a Low Plate Classic?

[martin manning]

FWIW a little coloration from the speaker is preferred by many. G12-65 is a good bet, and my low-plate sounds very good through a 2x12 open back loaded with those, playing a '62 RI Strat.

[Charlie Wilson]

Thanks Martin, right now I plug the amp in to the speakers that are in my Pro Reverb which are a Vintage C12N and a Warehouse G12-65 type speaker. The thing is, I am hearing some good sounds coming out of the amp especially clean and I can't say the overdrive doesn't sound good also. It is just a bit lower gain than I was hoping for. I purchased a 1-12 cabinet from Henry, so a single EV may be my only option for speakers right now. I wanted to experience the EV thing anyway. The last piece of the puzzle may be a Dumbleator.
CW

[Charlie Wilson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7sg8XqFIU

How is this guy getting this level of gain(distortion) out of a Dumble with a Strat (3:06)?
CW

[dpin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7sg8XqFIU

How is this guy getting this level of gain(distortion) out of a Dumble with a Strat (3:06)?
CW

Your idea of increasing the trimmer to 250K will get you a little closer.
There are also a couple of "clip ins" that you could try to increase OD without soldering in circuit mods.
The 100K ratio and level pot values "could" be increased in the same manner as the trimmer. To try the effect you could temporarily insert a 150K resistor between the grounded lug and the ground buss. You'll temporarily lose the ability to turn it any lower than 150K, but it will give you a taste of WAY more OD. Any changes you make should be one at a time to get an accurate assessment before moving forward.
I think there are too many guys that just build to the layout and never push any farther, and rob themselves of the unknown.....you'll never know how much it squeals until you make it squeal .
Don't be afraid to push the envelope. HAD wasn't.

Thanks for the Tweedle'....it's on my to-do list!

[ayan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7sg8XqFIU

How is this guy getting this level of gain(distortion) out of a Dumble with a Strat (3:06)?
CW

It's a small world. The amp in question is a Bluesmaster style.

G.

[Charlie Wilson]

Thanks Dpin, yeah I ain't done messing with this thing yet. Thanks for those suggestions. Gil, so that is what a Bluesmaster circuit sounds like. That is a pretty rockin' circuit. That may be amp number two for me as I don't think I want to change everything in my amp and add an HRM. However, I notice that circuit does have high plates and a 250kA drive pot. Maybe the gentleman in the video (great player) is a friend of yours?

[ayan]

I think that is the best example of how good that circuit can be made to sound. Still, at the end of the day, the BM cleans are great for a bluesy thing but tend to break up too early and that's why I no longer own my own Bluesmaster build. Part of the problem for me was that, inevitably, the lead sound was better with the preamp volume at about 7, and that made the clean channel break up too much for my taste. Although I think the lead sound of all the amps I built is better with the preamp volume up, in the case of my 124 or 183 builds that's not that big a deal since the V1b NF keeps the clean sound pretty tight and clean. However, between the lack of V1b NF and the Marshall PI, the BM grinds too much in the clean channel at gigging volumes with the same settings.

G.

Thanks Dpin, yeah I ain't done messing with this thing yet. Thanks for those suggestions. Gil, so that is what a Bluesmaster circuit sounds like. That is a pretty rockin' circuit. That may be amp number two for me as I don't think I want to change everything in my amp and add an HRM. However, I notice that circuit does have high plates and a 250kA drive pot. Maybe the gentleman in the video (great player) is a friend of yours?

[bcook]

Charlie,
I primarily play a tele or strat. The changes I've made from the 124 classic schematic are 5uF cathode bypass caps on V1 instead of the 10uF, .02u coupling cap at V1b, and the 330p snubbers. I didn't install the FET board, so the preamp tubes are running in the 220v range. The od entrance is a 2 resistor divider, 270k->47k. All said, it's different, but suits me.
I also like to run my knobs way up, with the volume somewhere around 3:00. :)
Thanks for the tweedle dee!

[Charlie Wilson]

Thanks Gil and Bcook, yeah I guess that was the idea of the LNFB on V1, to have the clean headroom but also get the gain up to push the overdrive. I probably would have a hard time with a dirty clean sound also. I am not a big fan of smooth violin tone (EJ sounds great it is just not my thing) and I thought the OD sound was lively and Marshally sounding on that Bluesmaster. To Bcook, I think those modifications you suggest make good sense. I have been thinking about lowering the coupling cap to .02 and the bypass caps to tighten things up a little. I am just waiting to get an EV speaker to see what kind of bottom end it has before I do that. I am still a little confused by the OD entrance network you suggest. I just can't visualize what that looks like.
CW

[Max]

we don't know for certian if all Low Plate classics had the larger value trimmers.

Why do you think so?

AFAIU what's visible on this picture

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... der037.jpg

at least one of the "Low Plate Classics" - the "Borderline Special" built for and used by Ry Cooder - doesn't have one of "the larger value trimmers". And AFAIR youl'll find more original "Low Plate classics" without one of "the larger value trimmers". And AFAIR all these original "Low Plate classics" without one of "the larger value trimmers" sound great in OD-mode (my personal taste of course) in combination with e. g. a '74 "maple neck" (one piece) Stratocaster.

BTW: An option for harmonically rich and juicy single coil OD-tones might be something like a Rick Turner Model T - IMO even if you don't play bottle-neck or slide - in combination with such a "Low Plate classic" ODS: http://www.rickturnerguitars.com/model-t.php

Cheers,

Max

[jelle]

Dear Max, do you recall what was measured for the trimmer in sn124, and what was printed on it?

What is visible on a picture is just what is visible on a picture.

Hope you have a great weekend!

Jelle

[Max]

What is visible on a picture is just what is visible on a picture.

I don't know of a single trigger in an original Dumble ODS with a "100K" label but a real value in the range (345K) of the 500K trigger in #124, the range talbany called - as far as I understood - "larger value trimmers".

BTW: If I misunderstood talbany's post, a clarification of the content of my misunderstanding might be more helpfull than such a "philosophical" statement concerning "what is visible on a picture". But of course the philosophy of science and the theory of imaging etc. are interesting topics, too.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

BTW: If I misunderstood talbany's post, a clarification of the content of my misunderstanding might be more help

Max
My post was to "simply" imply that not all "Low Plate Classics" had the higher value 345K (scratched 500k) as in 124 and 123..

I think we discussed changing the layout at one time, but since 124 was originally a Low plate classic and we composed the layout based on it's original (before the Skyliner upgrade) form,we kept it 345K ..There was probably a better way to state that in my post but I sometimes get lazy.. I think we have clarified that there are now both low (100k) and high (345K) OD trimmer values installed in a low plate classic...

Unless there are any others you know about?
All The Best!

Tony

[Charlie Wilson]

Hello, I realize that a typical Low or High Plate Classic probably had a 100k trimmer and while I enjoy the historical aspect of how they were done in the day, I just found it interesting that #123 and #124 both had higher value trimmers and both were for Stratocaster players. I know that a lot of it is guess work and conjecture but the guesses around here are more than educated so I appreciate all of the input I have received so far. Off the trimmer subject, a buddy of mine gave me a rather beat up 1970 Dual Showman Reverb a couple of days ago and I took a 2-35 250KA pot out of it and used it for my treble control. That pot really change how the amp sounded and felt for the better. The cleans have a really nice bell tone on the high end and the overdrive is way more focused and well, Dumble sounding. The pot measured 255k and I know the taper is different but even with the treble control turned down, the amp sounds way better. Now for the 1m volume controls...

[jelle]

Hi Max,

I would actually enjoy such conversation.

Back on topic, I have personally seen a low plate Classic with a trimmer labeled 100k. It measured lower, again, just like 124. It was a 72K trimmer set at about 60%.

Now back to the soccer world cup.

Jelle