What are the settings on your Dumbleator?

[talbany]

Hmmmm. Now that u put it that way I don't want to put anything in there at all. I will wire the parallel switch in the dlator for sure. So, what rack mount multi fx unit would be the best option in order to avoid the dreaded .30 cent syndrome you mention?

Obviously some units are better/ worse than others..Some might do fine for what you want it to do like Aaron mentions..My point was most don't know which opamps (and other components) are being used in some units and how they perform in a buffered/recovery type loop.Since they all have different features and sounds it's difficult to say which one is best suited for you.. I will however say that many of the players I've worked with prefer the older analog driven units that were made in the 90's.. Clearly these units don't have the clock speed D/A converters or more complex algorithms of the later units however they do seem well suited for live guitar, very natural (warmer with some headroom) sounding pre amp sections and to them are more concerned with pre amps than the effects..It's just reverb for live guitar!!
Some of these units are the old Lex's, LXP, Rocktrons,Rolands, TC Electronics,Eventide.. I am sure there are others but these are the ones I have heard and like.. Others can chime in..
BTW..I didn't care for the Alesis stuff much..

Good Luck!!

Tony

Tony,
As far as the 90's fx units that you feel would sound good in the dlator, would a lexicon MPX100 from the 90's fall into the category of "older analog driven units that were made in the 90's"? I ask because I'm a cheap bastard and it hurts me immensely to give up $ so trying to stay low cost as much as allowable to get what's needed.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug98/a ... xicon.html

A friend of mine gave me an MXP100 couple months back..It's an OK unit I keep it as a backup but (a bit compressed for my tastes)..get you by... I much prefer the LXP series.. I've been using a LXP15 for about 5 years now..When this goes I'll head more to the PCM's..Allot of guy's like the Rocktrons too..You can pick these up on the Bay for a couple hundred..

Good Luck!
Tony

[JHP]

I have a 2290 that sounds great because of the analog dry path but even the higher end Lex PCM series will benefit from some type of mixer/ parallel routing to aviod the digi conversion. I have a PCM 80 and I'm using an older inexpensive Roland M120 rack line mixer and it sounds great. You can pick them up used for 100.00. The Rane sm 26b is another good option.
Most rack reverb units sound better if you can run them 100% wet in a parallel situation.

Something like the Suhr minimix or gigrig wet box would work as well.


Running through digi A/D converters does smooth the tone and add compression that intially doesn't sound too bad but you loose punch and dynamics. My experience is as long as you keep the analog dry path most fx units sound pretty good.


I run my Lator with drive at 10:00 recovery max and output to taste as overall master volume.

[jcsifu]

Tony isn't the LXP15 reverb only? I am looking for primarily a delay, in particular a good tape delay sim. I use reverb very sparingly unless we cover a dick dale song or something. The lxp15 is def in my price range, so if it has delays, I'll pull the trigger on one.

JHP, I will add the series mixing pot to my Lator. I have that schematic that was posted awhile ago, actually I believe there are a couple of variations that are floating about.

I run my Lator with drive at 9;00-11:00, In (recovery) at 3.:00 (max gets things a little too far) and output overall as the master volume. I have my amps master at 12:00 as Tony suggested. This makkes the amp play for me, I feel like all I have to do is stay calm and let it do the work....if that makes sense.

I put a line6 echo park pedal in the Lator an hour ago to mess around with and the tape delay sim sounds good to me. I'm starting to wonder if my ears are as good as you and Tony's though.

[talbany]

LXP-15 does all the standard time based effects ie..Verb,delay Chorus, Pitch, shift, basic EQ although it doesn't have any sort of filtering/simulators.. I have limited room in my rack... My lator does have a parallel mode and a mix control.. I set it up 100% wet and blend that with my dry signal (in Phase)..
I only have a few patches that I use..The most common is a little slapback delay combined with a small or med size bright room (nothing fancy) ..I Set it tweak the mix gets me paid!!

Tony

[10thTx]

Tony,

I continue to really appreciate your generousity in sharing your wealth of information and experience. It proves to be very useful to me in shaping my thinking about D-style amps.

THANKS! with respect, 10thtx

[jcsifu]

LXP-15 does all the standard time based effects ie..Verb,delay Chorus, Pitch, shift, basic EQ although it doesn't have any sort of filtering/simulators.. I have limited room in my rack... My lator does have a parallel mode and a mix control.. I set it up 100% wet and blend that with my dry signal (in Phase)..
I only have a few patches that I use..The most common is a little slapback delay combined with a small or med size bright room (nothing fancy) ..I Set it tweak the mix gets me paid!!

Tony

Tony, I was looking at the manual on line but for some reason I didn't see anything but verbs listed. I'll pull the trigger on a LXP15, I'll start hunting down the lowest price I can find. I think I enjoy the low price hunt more than I should...reason I have too much gear in my closet that I don't use. My goal is to have a 3-4 space rack for gigs. Simple set up with no pedal board to have to step around and wires going everywhere. Just guitar, amp, and small rack on top. It has been a hassle in the past to set up and tear down and lug around and maintain a large pedal board every night I play in order to compensate for not totally having the amp sound I like. The D circuit has freed this from happening as I now enjoy hearing the sound of my amp, almost like I'm in the audience as well as being the player.
Think I'll follow suit with you on th loop. I'm going to use the "mesa twist" in my lator. For those who are following this thread I'm posting the schematic for it below.

I never really gave much thought to series/parallel loop options until you pointed it out here. I'm in the same camp as 10thTx, I appreciate the fact that you want others to be able to share the playing experience that comes with the D circuits enough to give your time and tips. Thanks

[Structo]

Good topic and I will probably eventually edit it into a Sticky Thread.

A couple years ago when there was talk about series vs parallel loops I did experiment along with member bluesfendermanblues with parallel Dumbleators.
I modded my D'lator several times in different configurations as they were developed.
I didn't really care for any of the iterations that we came up with.
Always reverting back to a three knob Dumbleator.
I really feel the Output pot is mandatory.

Then along came the Suhr Mini Mix device and later the Mini Mix II.

Bluesfendermanblues dissected the circuit so that it could be built by us here.
A commendable effort by him.
But I never tried to build it.

Now it seems that Suhr is not offering that device any longer.

But then I stumbled onto the Xotic X-Blender.
http://www.xotic.us/effects/x_blender/

It's a switchable series-parallel loop unit

I run a TC Electronics G Sharp reverb/delay rack unit into this in parallel.
I use that as more of an ambient reverb/ delay just to warm up the guitar tone a bit instead of completely dry.

It has a Wet/ Dry knob so you can blend in real time how much effect you want on the overall signal.
The knob is large enough to be adjusted by my foot.

John Suhr commented that he didn't think the unit had as much headroom as his Mini Mix but I find it acceptable and at a much lower cost.

And what I like as well is the X-Blender has switches for true bypass, Blend On/Off, Series/ parallel, Phase/ invert, bass mid treble trimmers and Boost on/off.

So now I have the G Sharp in parallel and in series I have TC Chorus, Volume pedal, and a new TC Flashback that I haven't dialed in yet.

Anyway, all this to say that the Dumbleator is part of the "rig" forever.

Now I am working on a Planet Waves modular snake so instead of multiple cables running to and from the amp, I can use just one with multiple plugs.

[jcsifu]

Tom, was one of those iterations similar to the one I posted? What was it that you found undesirable with the series/parallel installed in the dlator itself?

[Structo]

I believe that one is the latest which I never tried.

Really the only way you can tell is if you build it and try it.
For the earlier designs I simply didn't like the way it sounded wet/ dry.

I guess I have just settled for what works for me.

Not to say it wouldn't work for you.

[talbany]

I believe that one is the latest which I never tried.

Really the only way you can tell is if you build it and try it.
For the earlier designs I simply didn't like the way it sounded wet/ dry.

I guess I have just settled for what works for me.

Not to say it wouldn't work for you.

Tom
Was the parallel loop you did in phase?
If it was out of phase then that is why you didn't care for it..(I would imagine)

Tony

[jcsifu]

I can very easily add a 25k pot across my in and outs tonight and see what it sounds like. I should have something close in value if not 25.

BTW mine is a ceriatone kit with 3 knobs

[Structo]

I believe that one is the latest which I never tried.

Really the only way you can tell is if you build it and try it.
For the earlier designs I simply didn't like the way it sounded wet/ dry.

I guess I have just settled for what works for me.

Not to say it wouldn't work for you.

Tom
Was the parallel loop you did in phase?
If it was out of phase then that is why you didn't care for it..(I would imagine)

Tony

You know it's been awhile but I think I did experiment with that as the out of phase would probably be quieter.
I may have even had a phase switch in it for a while.

I should keep better notes since the old memory is not what it used to be.

[vibratoking]

I saw all the threads posted in the last few years. Build your own, byo MiniMix, Mesa trick, etc... I found a MiniMixII on ebay for cheap and haven't looked back. It's a great unit.

Also, AFAIR I don't believe there is an analog path in the 2290. It's all AD converted, but with an unusual ADC running at 1MHz that changes its dynamic range on the fly. Many think that ADC is magic.

[talbany]

I saw all the threads posted in the last few years. Build your own, byo MiniMix, Mesa trick, etc... I found a MiniMixII on ebay for cheap and haven't looked back. It's a great unit.

Also, AFAIR I don't believe there is an analog path in the 2290. It's all AD converted, but with an unusual ADC running at 1MHz that changes its dynamic range on the fly. Many think that ADC is magic.

This is true with many of these units..I have not heard of one with true bypass when mixing signals in the unit..without the schematic you never know!!
I wish I had room in my rack for a minimix.. But the Mesamix seems to do fine for what I do!!..A noticeable difference from serial..
3 Cool things I like about the Mesamix
Low value mix pot
It's in Phase
Low impedance signal driving the mix pot..(very little loading)..

Keep in mind you really need input and output controls on the unit to balance the signal..Otherwise you may notice a slight null when mixing

Tony

[JHP]

Also, AFAIR I don't believe there is an analog path in the 2290. It's all AD converted, but with an unusual ADC running at 1MHz that changes its dynamic range on the fly. Many think that ADC is magic.

The 2290 has an internal parallel mixer, the dry tone is not converted. Just checked the block diagram.

http://www.tc2290.com/docs/2290_owners_manual.pdf

JHP, I will add the series mixing pot to my Lator. I have that schematic that was posted awhile ago, actually I believe there are a couple of variations that are floating about.

That would be ideal having it built in.

scottl is a big proponent for the analog dry. I have run a number of high end units like the eclipse that sound pretty darn good in series with the A/D but then when you run a parallel signal keeping that analog dry you can really here and feel the difference in the amps dynamics.