Punk band, heavy footed drummer, and big shows with no PA. all the makings of wanting more for him.
When I played in a "power trio" like this I used 200 watts per channel stereo each into a 4x10 EV cabinet and I still had to turn everything up to 7-8. Thank goodness I don't play with that drummer anymore my Hiwatt 100 was like a practice amp. 200 watts is very appropiate in a situation like that.
But let me warn you, you will start having your audience stand outside the club and watch you through the windows from the side walk, and you will get kicked out of every bar you play in because the bartender can't take drink orders, and be read to go to blows with soundmen, especially if your town has a disturbing the peace ordinance. Our town had one of 106 dB, and our drummer was measured at 112 dB from the soundboard un-miked before the bass player and I were even plugged in. You will have to wear ear plugs, unless you're singing and then you just have to take it, hopefully your body will respond like mine did and produce lots of ear wax to save your hearing. Learn to sing too, because you will change singers like underwear until there are none left. Also learn to play really well because only other musicians will come see you play at that point and you need to keep them interested if you want any audience at all. Don't bother with any battle of the band kind of gig's especially if the judges are radio DJ's, you won't be invited back. Draw straws with your bass player to see who has to be on the same side as the China Crash. Also at 200 watts you can do away with the OD stage you ears will do that for you if you have efficient speakers.
All this talk reminds me of Battle of the Bands venues in the '70s when we would borrow as many twin stack amps as possible to compete of loudest band bragging rights.
Not recommended.
Of course, if you're young enough to want to do that, you are certainly not going to listen to me - as if you can hear anyhow.
All this talk reminds me of Battle of the Bands venues in the '70s when we would borrow as many twin stack amps as possible to compete of loudest band bragging rights.
Not recommended.
Of course, if you're young enough to want to do that, you are certainly not going to listen to me - as if you can hear anyhow.
I did some of those too! I had a Fender PS 400 w/six 4X12 cabs. That's what it took to properly load the OT w/3 secondary taps. The loudest, cleanest rig I ever heard!
talbany wrote:For me the the added 2 tubes 25+25 is not there so much for the volume( as we all know 100w= 3db louder) it's the added current applied to the primary of the OPT EVEN @ IDLE... This promotes a phenomenon known as flux density...(flux is the term regarding the magnetic field around a wire that is conducting current. Those invisible lines of magnetic force, if you will.)
Obviously this is the fundamental force that excites the secondary.
Second, Flux Density is, roughly, the combined strength of the flux -- that field of magnetic force radiating out. More power on the primary, greater flux density more induced on the secondary..
The increase in density on the secondary even at idle promotes wider bandwidth greater harmonic content and touch sensitivity more dynamic response at any volume level and faster out of the blocks..For the grip it and rip it type players don't pay much attention.. But the feel players especially slide guy's notice it.. The louder you push it the better it gets..Sound familiar!!
Tony
:twisted: :twisted:
Wouldn't the lower impedance on the primaries have an affect on this as well?
Transformers transform impedances as a pure ratio...So in that respect I don't think the lower impedance buy's you much in the way of energy transfer...(If that's what we are talking here)... That is, a 4400 PP to 8 ohm transformer makes any load on its secondary look like it's 550 times bigger to a tube at the primary. An 8 ohm secondary load then looks like a 4400 ohm load at the primary. It also makes a 16 ohm load look like an 8800 ohm load if you hook 16 to it, 2200 if you hook a 4 ohm load to it, and similarly for all values in between...As far as TONE goes,we all know impedance is frequency dependent it must affect frequency response..
I imagine the lower impedance of the primary would certainly help with the low end frequency response on the secondary (Given the ratio).. Whether we can actually hear it or feel it is another story..
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
All this talk reminds me of Battle of the Bands venues in the '70s when we would borrow as many twin stack amps as possible to compete of loudest band bragging rights.
Not recommended.
Of course, if you're young enough to want to do that, you are certainly not going to listen to me - as if you can hear anyhow.
I did some of those too! I had a Fender PS 400 w/six 4X12 cabs. That's what it took to properly load the OT w/3 secondary taps. The loudest, cleanest rig I ever heard!
Holy moly!
Six 412's !?!
I'll bet your pants were waving in the wind, those would push a LOT of air!
I did some of those too! I had a Fender PS 400 w/six 4X12 cabs. That's what it took to properly load the OT w/3 secondary taps. The loudest, cleanest rig I ever heard!
Holy moly!
Six 412's !?!
I'll bet your pants were waving in the wind, those would push a LOT of air!
I had two of those heads, I think they were 95 pounds each. A 10 amp line fuse and a power cord the diameter of my young wrist! Once, when a 6550 shorted, an actual lightning bolt shot out of the top of the head! Sold both years later to a bass player when I left Colorado in '90.
talbany wrote:
Transformers transform impedances as a pure ratio...So in that respect I don't think the lower impedance buy's you much in the way of energy transfer...(If that's what we are talking here)... That is, a 4400 PP to 8 ohm transformer makes any load on its secondary look like it's 550 times bigger to a tube at the primary. An 8 ohm secondary load then looks like a 4400 ohm load at the primary. It also makes a 16 ohm load look like an 8800 ohm load if you hook 16 to it, 2200 if you hook a 4 ohm load to it, and similarly for all values in between...As far as TONE goes,we all know impedance is frequency dependent it must affect frequency response..
I imagine the lower impedance of the primary would certainly help with the low end frequency response on the secondary (Given the ratio).. Whether we can actually hear it or feel it is another story..
Tony
I'm just trying to wrap my head around why I like 4 output tubes more than 2. Since I don't crank up the amp it's not saturation. To my ears it's just a richer sound.
That said, I still use 2 output tubes in both of my gigging amps because it's just easier to control the volume.
talbany wrote:
Transformers transform impedances as a pure ratio...So in that respect I don't think the lower impedance buy's you much in the way of energy transfer...(If that's what we are talking here)... That is, a 4400 PP to 8 ohm transformer makes any load on its secondary look like it's 550 times bigger to a tube at the primary. An 8 ohm secondary load then looks like a 4400 ohm load at the primary. It also makes a 16 ohm load look like an 8800 ohm load if you hook 16 to it, 2200 if you hook a 4 ohm load to it, and similarly for all values in between...As far as TONE goes,we all know impedance is frequency dependent it must affect frequency response..
I imagine the lower impedance of the primary would certainly help with the low end frequency response on the secondary (Given the ratio).. Whether we can actually hear it or feel it is another story..
Tony
I'm just trying to wrap my head around why I like 4 output tubes more than 2. Since I don't crank up the amp it's not saturation. To my ears it's just a richer sound.
That said, I still use 2 output tubes in both of my gigging amps because it's just easier to control the volume.
Bob, just a theory / guess here, and all impedances aside, I believe since 2 paralleled tubes (and anything else for that matter)don't turn on and off at exactly the same time, this adds more color and harmonics than a single pair of push pull tubes can offer, giving it's a more complex waveform. I do agree with you, the 100W mode does sound richer, no matter what the speaker impedance is set at, when compared to the 50W mode.
Just saw this thread again during a search for "voltage regulation". Update is I dropped it down to 150W and bought a Hammond 278CX for the PT. OT is a now NOS Bassman 100 I also got from dreric. Now I just have to figure out what are the best four power tubes to match that OT, Zpri=2,330 ohms, about 500-520 Vp, maybe 490 or so Vs.
Any opinions? I haven't done a good study on the plate curves yet. leaning towards KT88s.
Oh, and I'm saving that big chassis with the 6SL7s for a 300W SSS/Dumbleland using the 300PS OT. Bought an Antek 500-0-500 toroid two secondary windings in parallel and a big steel pot for it too.
But let me warn you, you will start having your audience stand outside the club and watch you through the windows from the side walk, and you will get kicked out of every bar you play in because the bartender can't take drink orders, and be read to go to blows with soundmen, especially if your town has a disturbing the peace ordinance. Our town had one of 106 dB, and our drummer was measured at 112 dB from the soundboard un-miked before the bass player and I were even plugged in. You will have to wear ear plugs, unless you're singing and then you just have to take it, hopefully your body will respond like mine did and produce lots of ear wax to save your hearing. Learn to sing too, because you will change singers like underwear until there are none left. Also learn to play really well because only other musicians will come see you play at that point and you need to keep them interested if you want any audience at all. Don't bother with any battle of the band kind of gig's especially if the judges are radio DJ's, you won't be invited back. Draw straws with your bass player to see who has to be on the same side as the China Crash. Also at 200 watts you can do away with the OD stage you ears will do that for you if you have efficient speakers.
