Tube Amp Archive

Today I got a bit of GAS and started looking at speakers (bad idea) and started looking at the Celestion Creamback G12M-65s. I believe I remember reading that Glen was quite impressed with them and from what I've read they're good if you've got a 2x12. Basically Celestion created them as not many people use 4x12s anymore and you can easily blow Greenbacks in a 2x12 with some amps. So they made a higher wattage version to take the power which also has more bottom end to make a 2x12 sound like a 4x12.

Anyway, I currently have some Eminence GB128s and I was thinking if I got the Creambacks I would save my ears a bit as they have a lower speaker efficiency. However Celestion and Eminence Speaker Sensitivity ratings are a bit different, so I'm wondering just how much lower in volume the Creambacks will be. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Celestion quotes 97dB and Eminence quotes 101.3dB. In both cases those figures are listed as sensitivity, and so should be at 1W/1m. The difference is then 4.3dB. Do you have some reason to believe that there is some difference in methods?

I just found it odd that the lowest any of their Eminence's speakers go in terms of sensitivity is 98dB and I only found one that goes that low. Most are over 100dB. If it drops the volume by 4.3dB that'd be great. I also found that I could find an Eminence speaker with the reasonant frequency below 85Hz.

Edit: Just found on their websites that they are the same as you say Martin. Not sure why people think Eminence speakers are measured differently then. Some people say they're enthusiastic about their ratings.

Plugging any amp into my EVM 12 which is a 100db speaker and then into my Celestion equipped 4x10 which I recon is about 97db there is a noticeable difference in volume.


3db difference is double/half the volume so that would bear out with my audible experience.



MC

3dB is the same as going from a 100W amp to a 50W amp. Halving the volume, I think, is a 10dB drop. Good to know you have noticed a difference though.

Are they both 4x12 cabs?

You will defo notice 3db in the cab, I have a number of cabs here with various speakers and the greenback cabs are all quieter.

I would say I could gig with a 10w amp through a 100db speaker but would struggle with a 97db speaker to hear myself properly with the same amp.. talking clean tones of course.

I have become a fan of the Celestion G12 Alnico creamback, check them out if you can, more expensive but worth considering.

Littlewyan wrote:3dB is the same as going from a 100W amp to a 50W amp. Halving the volume, I think, is a 10dB drop. Good to know you have noticed a difference though.

Are they both 4x12 cabs?

No the EV is a 1x12 cab and is frighteningly loud and clean. The Marshall is a 4x10 .


I have a pair of vintage G12-65's in my 2x12 Dumble cab.


The single EV ported Larry Carlton Dumble cab is fuller and louder sounding!!! It really is beast.

as Mike said 97db Celestion cabs are noticeably quieter which with a pokey amp can be a good thing.


Marcus

Well the G12M-65s are in the cab and I have to say, so far, they sound amazing. Unfortunately I haven't been able to play at a decent volume, not long enough to make a good review anyway but so far they definitely have the Greenback character. Much thicker and less harsh sounding than the Eminence GB128s I had in my cab.

Not sure about how much quieter they are as there was roughly half an hour between me playing the Eminence GB128s and then the Creambacks, so was hard to tell. Plus as I was only playing in my bedroom which is tiny it makes it even harder to tell. I did use a dB meter on my phone but its absolute crap and was no good for measuring the volume in this instance.

I did look at the Alnico Creamback Michael but they were £205 each! 90W handling though, quite impressive. I also looked at the G12-65s Marcus and I liked the sound of them but really wanted to get as close to the Greenback tone as possible.

if you're using your JTM 45 and an Express , if I remember correctly , then see if you can get hold of a marshall 4x10 to try. Honestly it's a speaker cab which I've yet to hear any amp sound bad through. Also they're very light and portable, it weighs less than my EV 1 x 12 cab. If you like the sound of a 4x12 but easier to handle then it's perfect. They're loaded with celestions and will take a good 50 w amp no problem.


Marcus

guitarmike2107 wrote:I have become a fan of the Celestion G12 Alnico creamback, check them out if you can, more expensive but worth considering.

Any comment on how they compare to others?
I found that my Gold, in fact most any Celestion with a lightweight vintage type cone, can give out horrid cone cry when used with a heavily overdriven amp at much more than 15 watts/speaker.
Whereas the Fane AXA12 compresses heavily, such that it just can't get loud; I guess that it just seems to saturate much past 20-30 watts.
I have an EV SRO12 that doesn't suffer either issue, but is super efficient, if a little muffled, monster heavy and slightly larger fixing centres.

I found the G12M65 to be too expressive, seemed to have an overblown upper mid that brings out note articulation but couldn't do the classic Greenback kerrang.

I have a pair of EVM 12 Force speaker for sale for £100 for the pair, packed and ready to go. 8 ohm each, 200w each, very nice neutral speakers.

Marcus

pdf64 wrote:

guitarmike2107 wrote:I have become a fan of the Celestion G12 Alnico creamback, check them out if you can, more expensive but worth considering.

Any comment on how they compare to others?

I don't have a gold to compare against, but there is a youtube video comparing the cream to the gold and the cream won hands down IMO, the gold with distortion just seemed too fizzy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvTgvP08Cx0

I have a blue just arrived so can report on that soon too hopefully

It has a really nice smooth top end and clear bass, attack is slightly softer than a G12H or a Vintage 30, it doesn't do the woody G12M greenback thing or have the boosted high mids like a vintage 30.

I won't be buying another cab now Marcus! Although I would like to try out a 4x10 one day. I have played through a 4x12 slanted cab before and it sounded quite nice but I have no idea what speakers it had. It was at a studio I rehearsed at a few times. I would also like to give Alnico speakers a go when I can.

So far I've found the G12M-65s are quite nice standing a couple of metres back from the cab or even up close. However if you go down to the same level as the speaker (sitting far back of course) they're quite harsh. I think this is due to the room I was in. It was my lounge and there is quite a lot of stuff in my lounge (incl a Christmas tree!) so I suspect the lower frequencies can't be heard as well.

I'd say they definitely have more high end than a normal Greenback reissue when listening to comparison videos. Interestingly though when listening to Celestion's comparison video of the Heritage, reissue and creamback the Creamback sounds very similar to the Heritage and has less high end than the reissue. Very interesting!