Austin Speaker Works KTS-70? Any users here?

[rooster]

I recently sent a '72 Celestion creamback off for a recone to ASW. I wasn't looking for an exact Celestion recone per se, and I have been wanting to try their speakers. So I looked at the various speaker reviews on their site and saw the KTS-70 getting some pretty killer reviews. I decided to try this cone in my Celestion, Ron there said no problem.

I received the speaker back in 10 days time, which I appreciated. Looking at the speaker cone, it looks VERY Celestion-like in so many ways, although the paper itself seems a bit 'greenish' somehow. Reading on their site that their cone is lighter than more typical cones, it occurs to me that they are maybe using a hemp cone. But they do not qualify their cones as hemp so I am not sure. It definitely seems as though an assembled kit was used, not the use of individual parts, and yet I know of no Celestion kit that this could be. I have even speculated that Tone Tubby is making this cone but I don't know. and I say this because I know they are nearby and they are into hemp cones. Eh, speculation on my part.

Anyway, on to the sound.

BTW, I broke it in on my variac for about 10 hours at 14 volts. It loosened up a bit but it probably could go another 8 hours or more, no problem. OK, it's a very bright speaker in an open back cab. It has a midrange character to it, yes, more so than a Weber Alnico Blue or Silver, but yet it doesn't have near the bass of either. It's interesting in a way but I can honestly say I have never heard another speaker like it. Never. In a way, it could be usable for a particular track in a recording, maybe like Albert Collins with a bridge pickup in a Tele kind of thing. But Rock? Blues? No, no, not very typical, IMO.

So I'm asking if someone else on the forum has this speaker, the KTS-70, and if so, if they would tell me their impression of its tone/timber. Like I said, earlier, on the ASW site, this is a highly reviewed and highly praised speaker. Could it be that I have once again been duped by website hype?



And tomorrow I'm recording some sound bites of my Pacific OT equipped Express into another cab, but I will switch over to the KTS-70 with my Tele and leave a short sample here. Get ready for something out of the ordinary, that's all I can say. Heck, I'll even plug it into my Rocket, I haven't tried that yet and I imagine there will be some real paint peeling there. Not dissing the quality of the treble, just saying it is TREBLE.

[Cantplay]

In general the bass will be better in closed back cabinet.

John

[Blackburn]

Rooster, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. I had a KTS70 in my possession for a few weeks last year. The guys at ASW are very generous and sent me both the Crossroads and the KTS70 to try out and compare. They said whichever I liked more I could keep and to send the other one back. I only paid for one and I thought it was awful nice of them.

Anyway, regarding the sound... The KTS70 is a very beautiful sounding speaker for clean sounds. I got some lovely tones while using the amp clean and would love a dedicated clean 2x12 with a couple of these. They are pretty bright, though. Should do nicely for chickin pickin. I didn't care for the grit on this one. There's something about the tone that was interesting to me and almost had a wooly type of quality. It didn't sound bad, but it just wasn't for me. It actually did remind me of some clips I've heard of old G12H30s and a similar way they distort. I can't really quantify that in reference to the pre Rolas, but I was just reminded of those when I was driving that speaker. I ended up choosing the Crossroads (Which is in the FS section right now) because I was after the M type of sound at the time.

Overall, if you want a beautiful bright, clean speaker the KTS70 will likely work very well. It's nice looking too.

[billyz]

ASW assembles their own parts. They have individual cones, spiders, coils etc. they do pre assemble them in jigs to speed up the final assembly process and they inspect each "cone assembly" prior to insertion in the frame.
I have seen Ron doing it.
In the right cab a kts70 has it all. But in a celestion frame the gap is much larger than an ASW frame. So it will sound a bit different. Old celestion gh30's do have more top end but also better low end. Ron uses a special concoction on the cone around the dust cap to brighten the top end. Smells like orange liqueur I think it's some kind of shellac.

[rooster]

Thanks for all the replys.

I went to another friends house two days ago, where oddly enough, he had a 4/12 loaded with older English V30s. They have a studio sound room and this cab was all mic'ed up, indicating this was their favorite 4/12 of the month. And since I brought my Express and a LP over there to share, we plugged into it. Well.... That is a stinkin' bright cab! At first I thought my amp had altered itself on my drive over there, but no, this was the 'way' in their sound room. So we played it for a bit and after awhile my ears adjusted to the cab and the Express sounded great. (But all the while in the back of my mind, I was thinking my Weber Brad Paisley pair must actually be fairly dark on the spectrum - something I have never really considered.)

OK, so back home and back into the ASW KTS-70 in its 1/12 open back cab. Damn, now it didn't sound quite as bright! I have to allow that my top end hearing was no doubt a little impaired at this point so I didn't rush to judgement. But it wasn't too unlike the sound at my friend's place. Um, with the exception of the high frequency feedback that occurred on the Tele bridge pickup when I overdrove the amp. Ha, which I kind of liked, call me sick.

Blackburn, I do agree this is a good speaker for clean sounds. Funny how that should be, isn't it? I also allow that it would be different in a closed back cab as Cantplay suggested, but I'm not sure I would want to waste this kind of unusual midrange that the speaker has in an open back cab. It's a very different speaker, like I said before. Blackburn, why did you tire of the Crossroads? I was sitting here wishing at this point that I had maybe asked for this cone, to tell the truth.

And BillyZ, thanks for your input. OK, I can see a shop preassembling the cone and spider, sure. In regards to the Celestion gap, this is a May '72 creamback, do you think Celestion had large gaps then? Isn't this something that came later? Also, regarding the special glue, hm, yes, I appreciate that the dust cap glue is a big deal. And actually, my local reconer uses a white glue that dries clear, but remains flexible and it's something I don't let them use - I bring the speakers home and use a special super glue to put them on with. I do think it makes a difference.

Oh, also going back to voice coil gaps, I had two broken vintage C12Ns, one a '63, the other a '68. The 68 - as I understand it - was made by CTS/Eminence in that grey period when changing markets were dissolving Jensen the musical instrument speaker company. Anyway, the new replacement parts were identical, voice coil, cone, spider, dust cap. But here's the thing. The 68 CTS Jensen had a noticeably tighter voice coil gap than the 63, and in fact, the original voice coil on this speaker was open, the cone was fine. The 63 still had its voice coil intact, but the cone was cracked/torn/ripped. ?? So, as the process begins, the reconer tells me, he can't use the same voice coil on both speakers (these were 50 watt kapton coils). I said, what? He tells me the gap is just too small on the 68 to do a good job, he needs a thinner voice coil. Ha! So we go round a bit and I say, no, just go ahead and try it. Alright, so I pick them up and they are good, both of them, no rubs. I bring them home and put the dust caps on and burn them in a bit on the variac. All the while I am thinking the 68 will sound very different than the 63. Well, all said and done, they sound virtually identical. I am very sure I could not blind test one vs. the other.

Um, which is to say that I am pretty sure, especially considering Balckburn's review, that this reconed creamback sounds very similar to the stock KTS-70. That's my take, anyway.

[rooster]

Something further, it always comes back to the idea of finding the right speaker for the particular amp. For example, the reconed Jensens and the original coned Jensen would both be good in something tweed. A Deluxe quickly comes to mind. Likewise, I also think the KTS-70 would really like the Deluxe and for somewhat similar reasons, although the KTS-70 has a midrange character that the reconed Jensens don't have.

Well, at this point, I've decided I will burn the ASW speaker in for 36 hours more on the variac starting next week. And, since I was going to record the speaker anyway, I'll do a pass on Monday and then follow up with another recording after the burn in time. I like some of the characteristics of the speaker, but not all. Maybe a break in will bring out some of the other qualities I'm looking for.

Oh, and going back to the Brad Paisley pair, I have to add that they are somewhat unique vs. some of the other speakers that I own or run into. To my ear, as they are given more amp volume, they actually brighten up. And in a dynamic way, a way you can control and use to advantage. On the other hand, to my ear, the V30 is rather static in it's character, at low volume or high volume, and it occurs to me that speakers that start out bright, keep that signature as the speaker is driven harder. Maybe something to think about.

......or I could be rambling.

[Blackburn]

It's not so much that I tired of the Crossroads, but more of a cost concern. I bought one and was hoping to acquire three more, but given some recent conversations with a friend who I hold in high regard when talking tone, I was kind of talked out of it in lieu of more generic and less expensive alternatives for a 4x12 that should yield a very similar result tonally. One of them I've been eyeing is the new Creamback M. After some good break in I'm sure it will be a great speaker and a quad of those is about half the price of a quad of Crossroads. If you wanted that darker sound for a better chugga chugga tone then I'd guess the Crossroads cone would have been better for it. They certainly are very different speakers.

Back to the KTS... They say on the ASW site that it would be a good mate with Dumble style amps and I'd be very interested to hear one through a 1 or 2x12. I really like my Elegante for everything, but that KTS just has a magical clean sound. I guess I'd have to hear it break up with a few amps to get a full perspective on the dirty side of it.

[rooster]

This is a very quick recording made of the Weber Brad Paisley pair 2/12 vs. the 1/12 KTS-70 using my Tele SC equipped guitar - pretty traditional. This was recorded to MP3 via a Roland handheld recorder placed about 10 feet away from the speakers - no great shakes of a recording process here and just wanking away. In fact, you will hear a little digital hash as the KTS is recorded, little spikes, as the speaker sets something off in the room or the recorder, not sure which.

But I wanted to share this before the extended burn in of the KTS. Funny thing, I'm clearly hearing that the KTS has it's place.

My AC30/Rocket is pictured with the controls set to where I had them so I can return to the same settings. No pedals, straight in.

P.S. The recording will play the Weber speakers first on the neck pup, then the KTS-70 on the neck pup; then the middle position with the Webers, followed by the middle position with the KTS-70; followed by the bridge pickup, etc...
Basically you should hear 6 different starts and stops in the recording. I hope this makes sense.

[Blackburn]

I enjoyed that clip Rooster. Quite the difference there! That guitar/amp setup seems to be mated pretty well with the KTS. Maybe I'll give it a go again in the future. The Webers were pretty dark and maybe it was just the recorder but I thought the KTS recorded better, but could just be due to the better top end.

[billyz]

I did some
A/b comparison with the ASW and scumback h65. While I thought the scum back was excellent as I switched to the ASW I instantly heard more depth and clarity in the midrange. Was not so dramatic but was very apparent . I am not so hung up on any speaker and will continue to use them all. I really like the Jensen tornado . But if it's the absolute best you want then ASW is it(at a price of course).

[rooster]

Blackburn, yes, I have mixed feelings about the KTS-70 at this point - maybe mixed up is a better way to put it! It definitely brings something to the table that the Webers do not, and it's the top end along with this high midrange thing. Funny, it took a visit to my friend's studio and that box of Vintage30s to realign my thinking because I was convinced this was a mistake.

As to what ASW has done here, it seems they have found a way to bring the top end but skip the spikey edge that turns me off. I can't compare it to the Celestion Blue because I don't own that speaker, but I can compare it to the Weber 15 watt blue (my memory of it at this point) and I really disliked that speaker. It was a speaker that just delivered a treble that I came to hate, very edgy/spikey. The ASW is not that.

Back to the Weber Paiseley pair, yes, they are darker but they do record very well when I use a proper room mic and get something on the speaker cone. But I agree, when you make a recording like this, or even using an iPhone, the ASW jumps out. When I record the speakers in a few days time I will mic things up proper, including the ASW.

[Blackburn]

Rooster, have you tried the Elegante? Myself and BillyZ both feel this speaker is something special. You'll spend more on that one than on any other new speaker but with many circuits it's one of those grail tones, IMO.

[billyz]

Rooster, have you tried the Elegante? Myself and BillyZ both feel this speaker is something special. You'll spend more on that one than on any other new speaker but with many circuits it's one of those grail tones, IMO.

True .

[rooster]

Yeah, BillyZ has mentioned his like of this speaker, but no, I have not tried it. I may be up for it one day, we'll see. I do appreciate your taste in speakers, Blackburn, and BillyZ's, too. Certainly it does ASW good that both of you like some of their speakers. I am listening.

On that note, have you actually played the Celestion Creamback that you mentioned above? This is the 55 Hz version, right?

[Blackburn]

Thanks Rooster, the RI Creamback I mentioned above is the 75hz model and I'm only looking at it as a more cost effective alternative (Much more) at $118 a pop from CED. I've not actually played one yet. The Crossroads isn't convincing me and with the price of three more, it's time I get into something else. I've enjoyed some clips I've found on YouTube of the Creamback and really dig this one with a Germino Club 40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQtU3rJjEw

And for a clip of a clean Elegante with an Xits. The second part is with a Gold. The difference is really something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzCk_1bQmqg

And one more with an Express clone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clvRQHQeRdQ

I don't put too much stock into clips heard over the web, but the Creamback demos I've heard bode well for it. As soon as I get a couple I'll break them in for a while with my AC rig and see if they get nice and happy and fulfill my need for M style speakers.