Super pots? Any takers?

[rooster]

OK, I had to ask/mention this.

I really appreciate Glen and his very studied approach in getting his Express's to behave so well. Ah yes, the Volume pot on the guitar. Everybody knows that the pot makers just don't make them like they used to. So the option is to find some old ones or try to find something new that might work as well. ??
And, BTW, in the LP, if you need the long shaft, I really don't know what the odds are in finding something like what Glen is running. These days Gibson typically uses a 300K pot with a lineal taper in most LPs - beyond the Historic series anyway. CTS does offer a long shaft 500K but the taper is not vintage as far as I can hear. And Gibson doesn't really care too much about this kinda thing as far as I can tell for that matter.

So what do you have to choose from? I have only found one long shaft option that has the correct taper. This is the pot sold by RS Guitarworks. (They also sell a short shaft version). So I bought some to try. They aren't cheap, $15 @ and the shipping situation is like a bad trip to the dentist - 10 days to get from Kentucky to Oregon via UPS. Super lamo here, IMO. But they did arrive

And they work very well I think. Certainly the taper is way better than the CTS pots they replace (an earlier experiment, tossed the Gibson 300Ks) - and yes, the RS pots are also made by CTS, go figure.

There is also one other 'Super Pot' out there that is worth a mention. It is a Dimarzio product and sells on MF for $6.50@. It is also made by CTS. It is available only in the short shaft type, but in both 500K and 250K. I have put a few of these (250K) into my Strats and Teles and - as far as I can tell - these two differently labeled pots (RS vs. Dimarzio) are probably made with the same guts. ?? The Dimarzio has a different back cover than the RS version, yes, but the taper seems very similar at first glance.

Anybody else have any experience with either of these pots? FWIW, I ran into a current Fender Strat that had a stock CTS pot in it - and damn if it didn't respond very well to the volume control. ?? My newest Strat is a 2006 and I sold the pickguard complete - picked up a new CTS pot from Allparts at the time. That replacement pot sucked in the taper department, but maybe the original Fender issue was good? Eh, the madness of not paying attention I guess....

[JamesHealey]

You sir need to get out more

good luck in your quest for the ultimate pot

[funkmeblue]

try alessandro's for 50 bucks a pop.....I really like the mojo labled cts pots, or you could just grow your own

[rooster]

Woah, JH, are you saying I ain't hip enuff to know this sooner? Or there is something better and cheaper? Or are you saying that pots don't matter?

fmb - yeah, I forgot about those. But he doesn't make that long shaft version. Have you tried any of these, BTW? As to 'growing your own', how do you change the carbon on a pot to make the taper like a vintage pot? I thought the manufacturer molded this and it was done.

[CapnCrunch]

Hey Rooster,

I think he was making a joke. You know, grow your own pot(s). I thought there was a fair bit o that going on down in Oregon.

Typed jokes never come out quite as good as the live version. You just can't hear the inflection on the punch line........

Oh well. When you get this pot thing figured out, post some more. I am wanting to wire a Les Paul Classic like they did in 59. I've replaced the crappy ceramic humbuckers with a pair of Jason Lollar Imperial humbuckers (which are fantastic) and now want to re-do the wiring, caps and pots. I'll be interested to hear any other ideas. That is short of growing my own. I think my wife might throw me out if I try that

[rooster]

CC - Oh, OK, yeah that could be it. But, really, I was thinking that I'm a little slow on the draw to put a focus on this part of the TW puzzle.

And here, I have watched Glen's videos, but I have never really thought about myself getting into the volume pot 'thing', ya know? But recently I tried the Dimarzio super pot from MF in my Strat and I have suddenly become a convert. I mean, I am starting to wonder if I have missed this boat BECAUSE I have never had a pot that did something like this, eh? Well, you need the amp, too!

For example, with my Express, running an OD in the front, I am now able to keep the OD on and just pot up and down, going from clean to lead tone. I never thought this would be possible. And let me say, where I do not have all the BIG THUNDER that Glen has with that 4/12 video, I can now at least approximate the effect. For my little club gigs this is very cool indeed.

It is like playing guitar the way it was meant to be played I realize. So yeah, my reaction to 'get out more' was right on target, although, as you suggest, he may have been talking about pot/smoke.

...All of which led me to post this and ask if anybody else was running into this.

[redshark]

Hey Rooster

I met Glen at Nashville amp show and I was one of the lucky ones to try the TW amps there.
My Les Paul has those RS super pots and I always believed that those were the best ever until Glen showed me his LP with vintage I believe "central labs?" original Gibson pots.
I was shocked to realize how smooth the taper on those pots really is and that it makes a big diference when playing an amp like a TW. Don't take me wrong, I believe that RS pots are great but when you get confronted with real vintage mojo is always mind-blowing.

[Normster]

I think the problem with most modern pots is twofold. First, the taper is too gradual from 0 to 5 (assuming 10 is full on). CTS pots, for example, are usually 10% taper. Alphas tend to run about 15%. I don't know about vintage Gibson, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were as much as 30% taper (like some Fender amp pots of that era).

The second problem is that the taper isn't very smooth on many newer pots. They seem to jump from 15% to 50% with very little transition in between. Obviously, I'm talking about audio taper pots here.

As for "rolling your own" I haven't tried it, but I've heard you can create your own values by scraping away portions of the carbon track.

[rooster]

rs - Woah, that is something I need to hear. Thanks for posting this.

Are you adding 500pf caps across your volume pot lugs? I do this and it was something KF was into. I would wonder, if you do have these in place (?), and if Glen had these in place (?) if the differences would still be as dramatic. Do you know if Glen has a treble bleed cap on his volume pots? RS does not suggest them in their wiring harness info, and states that the pickup is 'clearer' all the way down (I think I read this), but I like the cap thing.

Eh, the real drag is that the Express becomes even more indispensible live as you get hooked on the potting up and down thing. My other amps don't respond the same way.

[rooster]

Normster - Yeah, and here I am really in the dark. The RS pots and Dimarzio are not what I would call 'audio' taper, but then I haven't really heard anyone call them a particular type of taper. They are probably unique, and then the Centre Lab pots are even more unique? Gibson definitely qualifies the 300K as linear and somehow I think this is what the RS are in some general way.

As to rolling your own, no, I don't think that is the reference. Here I think it is a scrapping of the last part of the carbon for a bypassed tone pot - something like that. Yeah if you were able to scrape the carbon off in any kind of 'thinning' result, you would just change the carbon value, not the taper. Or am I missing something?

[redshark]

Rooster, I don't think Glen has a treble bleed there. I didn't ask him that question but he didn't mention anything about it either ,and when I was playing his express he suggested me to try with his LP standard. He said he loaded that LP (it wasn't his 59) with old pots that he bought on ebay if I'm not mistaking, he told me how much he paid for them (I forgot most of the details) and then as soon as I started rolling the volume I could tell the diference in the transition from a clean sound to slightly crunchy to full distortion. Very smooth!!!
No, I don't use a treble bleed either, the only thing I did on both of my Les pauls for mojo or reality, I don't know, is get real bumblebees. I love those caps and the way they handle the higher frequencies. Not harsh or piercing.
I had played 3 TW amps. Glen's express and the liverpool that he brought to the nashville amp show. i also tried a rocket (for only 20 seconds). I think they are wonderful amps. the best I've ever played.
I would love to try to build a clone but before I do I want to understand why the TW do what they do and how to achieve the results. I read this forum constantly and I learn from everybody.
I had read a lot of info on KF and I don't remember he mentioning the treble bleed on guitars. Where did you find that information?

[Normster]

As you thin out the resistive material, you increase the resistance of that section of the pot. There's a really great explanation of how pots work here:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/p ... tscret.htm

In re-reading the article, it appears that thinning the carbon tracks is theoretically possible, but not very practical.

[Structo]

Yes and if you try to create your own or alter the taper you would change the overall resistance.

So I suppose if you wanted a 300K custom taper pot you would start with a 500K and scrap away?

[Nigel Tufnel]

I haven't tried the super pots so I can add nothing there but the pots that Hamer has made by cts have a very nice taper.

[billyz]

I just picked up a 2007 Gibson R9. The stock pots were 500k linear taper. They did not work very well for me. I located a set of Centralab pots from a SG. i found they all measured over 600K mostly 625 -630K . I rewired the guitar to vintage specs with some NOS Green CDE caps. WOW, what a difference in sound and feel. I now have a 60 PAF in the neck and a 67 TTOP in the bridge. I flipped the magnet on one of the pickups to give me the Peter Green sound in the middle position too. This guitar now sounds like Magic. Everyone who has heard it can't wait to comment on the Heavenly tone. BTW, I am using a little 6v6 wreck inspired 1x12 combo. Perfect for the CLub scene here in Austin.