EL-84 recommendations

[Ron Worley]

Guys-

For either a 'Pool or a rocket, what is a reasonably priced tube?? The NOS prices I've seen are scary....

Anything in production that sounds good????

Ron

[Allynmey]

Totally different tubes for each. Liverpools like matched quads of Telefunken, GE, and Mullards also sound good. Rockets shipped with GT Russian commercial tubes from the early 80's. The later ones 90's and later don't have the sound.

Allynmey

[skyboltone]

Hi Ron:
I'm pretty sure Allyn misread you're query. A lot of people are pretty happy with JJ. EH seems to have a high falure rate but sound great. I took a poll on this very question about half a year ago and JJ got the preponderance of good reviews. But NOS Europeans they are not. We live with what we got eh?

Dan

[Ron Worley]

Dan-

You got it.... I would love to put $500 in NOS tubes into every amp, but I just can't afford that ....

I am making these amps for myself and a couple friends as gifts.... so if they want to NOS it up... fine and dandy.... I just want the amp to sound good off the bat from my bench. What happens after that is all up to the finances...

Hopefully the JJ's will work a treat...

Ron

[Fischerman]

I like the Sovtek EL84M (not the regular Sovtek EL84). I think they are Russian military tubes.

EDIT: One review.

[nickt]

EDIT: One review.

HaHaHa "Brian's personal Tech Greg Fryer" Geeze

Hey I knew Greg before he was a guitar tech back 30 years ago. We shared a house and I scratched up his first "Green Machine" by playing it a real gigs.

Good luck to him - he's certainly remained true to his passions. Last I heard he was doing emergency tech work for Dave Gilmore and cloning the Red Special.

Small world - this makes me really happy

Ooops... sorry for the hijack...

[Lonely Raven]

That's a well written article.

I have almost no EL84 in my collection and I'm stressing about getting NOS or Vintage Pulls vs new manufacture tubes like the JJ.

If JJ are good workhorses and worth tweaking the amp around, then that's not so bad. But if these amps are duds without Tesla and RFT and all the highly sought after tubes, I'm not sure I could afford to finish them!

[Fischerman]

I don't really have that much experience with EL84s but I did go through a few brands in my little 1x10" Gibson GA15 which is just a Trace Elliot Velocette in Gibson clothing (even the PCB still says 'Trace Elliot' on it). This amp ran them at ~375vdc and boocoo current...about 17W per tube plate dissipation is all. From what I can recall:

The EH had cherry spots at idle but didn't sound terrible...and they rattled. Didn't stay in the amp long enough to weaken.
The JJ ran fine and sounded fine but rattled and didn't last very long before they weakened.
The regular Sovtek had cherry spots at idle and just sounded weak from the get go.
The GT (which IIRC was just a JJ but I'm not sure now) sounded fine but rattled pretty badly...didn't give them a chance to get old.
The Sovtek EL84M seemed to sound bigger than the rest and definitely lasted the longest. No tubes I tried last all that long in this amp but the Sovtek EL84M seemed to last longest and rattled the least.

Wow Nickt - Gilmour and May...not too shabby!

[Firestorm]

Last time I looked, Tubemonger had 60s-70s military grade Teslas (not JJ, actual Roznov Teslas) for $25. Pretty nice tube, IMO.

[blaren]

I dont know if they're still available but those OLD Russian military 6n14nEB (or 6p14pEB...the n is actually the Russian symbol for pi) are REALLY good and DURABLE. AND...you can get them for a head of cabbage.
I have a few EL84 amps (no EL84 wrecks) and I have ALL kinds of NOS, OS, and some NP tubes.
The Ruskies sound right in the middle. They sound like they look...SOLID. They are a little tight but DO "give". In my 36W 18W Marshall clone (??) I like the old TESLA Roznov hexplates the best but I'm not real comfortable really PUSHING them...just cause they're expensive. They arent a WHOLE LOT better souonding than the ruskies though anyway. The Ruskies give it extra bite and a little more headroom and a LOT more peace of mind and less stress on the bank account.
JJs are decent. I've had failures though. Also, as I'm sure everyone and their dog will tell you, they sound relatively sterile and to me, a bit "thin"?
If you try the RUSKIES, make sure they are the EB ones. I think they used to be 8 for $20 . NOS! No one can complain about THAT. $2.50ea for indestructable, great sounding glass???
Oh...and....if your tubes are redplating, 99.9% of the time, you need to fix your amp....ESPECIALLY if more than one set of tubes does it. What are the other pins reading? As long as everything (cathode, screens...) are jiving, some EL84 amps safely put 500V on the plates . Cant remember who but a couple companies (I think Peavey was one?) had 2XEL84 amps making 50W!!!
Anyway....if the prices are still as low as before from the eBay seller in Russia (there were 2 guys...the one with LOTS of feedback ships the GOOD stuff FAST), you cant go wrong with the 6p14pEB.
My 2 cents!

[Fischerman]

I dont know if they're still available but those OLD Russian military 6n14nEB (or 6p14pEB...the n is actually the Russian symbol for pi) are REALLY good and DURABLE. AND...you can get them for a head of cabbage.

That's the Sovtek EL84M.

EDIt: They are surplus Russian military tubes but they're not so cheap anymore (maybe we should shut up about them ). I think they go for like $24 per matched pair now.

[Fischerman]

Oh...and....if your tubes are redplating, 99.9% of the time, you need to fix your amp....ESPECIALLY if more than one set of tubes does it. What are the other pins reading? As long as everything (cathode, screens...) are jiving, some EL84 amps safely put 500V on the plates . Cant remember who but a couple companies (I think Peavey was one?) had 2XEL84 amps making 50W!!!

Yes and no I think. The amp (my Gibson/Trace Elliot amp) was just designed with too high a plate voltage for the circuit (my not-so-educated guess) and they didn't adjust the screens. If they adjusted the screens to a lower voltage they probably would have run fine. I can see how amps could run EL84s at 500v on the plates but I would expect the screens to be quite a bit lower. It seems all these EL84 amps really pummel the screens...what with only 100ohm screen resistors. I can't see how anybody is getting 50W clean out of two EL84s...I didn't think it was possible. It might put out 50W dirty (Class B?)...but clean? Could it have been Traynor?

EDIT: I never did mention that when I bought the Gibson (Sam Ash blowout) the power tube sockets were melted and deformed...but still worked. PCB actually survived unscathed.

[Lonely Raven]

I just had a short E-mail conversation with Sargent Overdrive (aka Terry Kilgore of David Lee Roth fame) who came highly recommended at the 18watt forums. He recommended these for my Rocket and 18watt:

" four saratov 7189eb the strongest best sounding tube you can buy and 2 morefor your 18 watt"

I thought I'd give them a stab since I'm short on the EL84 type tubes.

[Buschman]

I put some TAD el84 in my 18 watt lite & have not taken them out. Pretty impressive for new stuff. JJs get er dun but I have had them redplate during a gig. I really like the older yellow label Teslas & they are not terribly expensive.

[Allynmey]

I dont know if they're still available but those OLD Russian military 6n14nEB (or 6p14pEB...the n is actually the Russian symbol for pi) are REALLY good and DURABLE. AND...you can get them for a head of cabbage.

That's the Sovtek EL84M.

EDIt: They are surplus Russian military tubes but they're not so cheap anymore (maybe we should shut up about them ). I think they go for like $24 per matched pair now.

Really??? I just got 8 matched Rocket ready early 80's tubes for less than $5.00 ea. NOS/NIB