new speaker suggestions for Liverpool

[aaronz28]

i just built a matching 2x12 closed back for my Liverpool Clone.

need to load it with something..

not really interested in sourcing vintage speakers... and would like to tame the highs a bit on this sucker..

any suggestions?

alnico? ceramic? etc.? model?
thanks

Aaron

[paulster]

If it were me, since it's closed back, I'd get a pair of Scumback M75 65Ws.

[FYL]

A pair of Weber Ceramic Silver Bell, 50 W version with pre-Rola doping or a combo Ceramic SB + Ceramic Blue Dog would very nicely do the trick.

Scumbacks are Weber OEM models. Really nice speakers but IMO overpriced.

[paulster]

Scumbacks are Weber OEM models. Really nice speakers but IMO overpriced.

Scumbacks are indeed made by Weber but that's the kind of statement that gets people thinking (and stating publicly) that you can order a custom Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback, which very much isn't the case. Jim's speakers are proprietary to him.

Expensive, but well worth it. But cheap when compared to the Austin Speakerworks speakers, which are also supposed to be awesome!

[FYL]

Scumbacks are indeed made by Weber but that's the kind of statement that gets people thinking (and stating publicly) that you can order a custom Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback, which very much isn't the case. Jim's speakers are proprietary to him.

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

But cheap when compared to the Austin Speakerworks speakers, which are also supposed to be awesome!

Could be great speakers, but my (calibrated) Bullshit-O-Meter hits the red zone when I read: "The result is our Featherlite™ cones with our proprietary cone formulas making our speakers essentially vintage right out of the box, rich effortless tone and superior power handling with no break in!

Our Featherlite™ cone construction provides an unobtrusive decoupling damping mechanism enhancing cone stability at high output levels thereby raising cone cry thresholds (reduces cone cry) without smothering desired breakup tone/modes or overall efficiency. Simply put, less moan, more tone!"

These guys should do a presentation at the next AES convention...

[paulster]

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

And you know this? Or this is just your opinion?

Both Jim (who you'd expect to) and also Ted Weber have always said that you can't get a Scumback-spec from Weber using the custom MyTone ordering method.

[Scumback Speakers]

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

No, you can't, but you're not alone, many have made that same erroneous statement, so I'm not surprised to see it posted (yet again!).

You know, I asked Ted how he felt when people bought the 1225/Stan Spec/etc pre rola doped models, then tried mine and sold the quad they had, or put them in the closet.

Ted replied "Well, Jim, it's like this. We can make 40 of our pre rola type speakers in an hour, and we can make 8 of yours. That's why we charge you more to make your speakers, though.

And frankly, I'm not hurt by it at all. Why? I sold four speakers to a client, then they heard yours and they bought four more. I sold 8 speakers total instead of four. How bad am I supposed to feel?"

There was also a post on the Dr Z forum when Ted first joined there, and the first question he had to answer was "What's the difference between your pre rolas and Scumbacks?"

Here's the link: http://drzamplifiers.proboards.com/inde ... 075&page=1

Post is about 1/2 way down the page. And here's what he wrote (figured I'd make it easy for you since you may not be a DrZ forum member) in reply to the question in quotes.

Quote:
Ted, could you clarify the difference between your pre-Rola treatment Greenbacks and Scumbacks?


Hmmm.. not sure how to address that.
Geez.. not a very good way to post my first response.


Anyway... Southbay sent me a bunch of vintage speakers with detailed notes on each one, what he liked about it, what he didn't. Now, these were all original, well broken in, and had a certain sound and character he heard in his head. So, he asked me to build a bunch of prototypes, document the treatments, parts, etc. and send them for evaluation. He picked the few that had that tone he had been hearing and those became the models he sells.

We've been doing Pre-Rola treatment for several years, we just didn't have it as an option until recently. What we do is lightly dope the surround and also lightly dope around the dustcap, about a 1/2" band on the face of the cone. We also chemically treat the cone to soften it, and also beat the heck out of it with our break-in procedure.

So, on to the difference. The P-R teatment just makes it sound old, out of the box, and slightly softer due to the aged cone.
It's nice for high volume+distortion work.

The SB speakers, again, have a tone he was hearing, and judging by his sales, it must be a good tone he had been hearing.
We are always behind the 8-ball on his orders.

It is a warmer, creamy tone, also good with high volume and distortion, with really good note detail at all volumes.


Ted
« Last Edit: Apr 9, 2007, 6:33pm by tedweber »

I'm sure this won't be the last time this comes up, but since you now know the truth, I'd appreciate it if you correct your posts online to reflect it.

Thanks!

Jim Seavall "Scumback Speaker Guy"

[FYL]

Both Jim (who you'd expect to) and also Ted Weber have always said that you can't get a Scumback-spec from Weber using the custom MyTone ordering method.

Sure, no need for MyTone, just send the right specs to Weber. And no, they won't help you if you fancy cloning Scumback or any other of their OEM designs.


(Hint: Bounce, Snuggle, Gain or Downy?)

[Scumback Speakers]

Both Jim (who you'd expect to) and also Ted Weber have always said that you can't get a Scumback-spec from Weber using the custom MyTone ordering method.

Sure, no need for MyTone, just send the right specs to Weber. And no, they won't help you if you fancy cloning Scumback or any other of their OEM designs.


(Hint: Bounce, Snuggle, Gain or Downy?)

I guess you didn't read my post above yours yet. Hey, if it was only fabric softener that would be great! Too bad it's not that, or even remotely just that.

[FYL]

since you now know the truth, I'd appreciate it if you correct your posts online to reflect it.

I'll gladly correct any factual mistakes as soon as I'm proven wrong.

For instance, getting back to:

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

what part of this sentence is false?

[FYL]

Hey, if it was only fabric softener that would be great! Too bad it's not that, or even remotely just that.

I've never written that Scumback speakers were standard Weber's with cones treated with fabric softener, or even remotely just that.

[Scumback Speakers]

since you now know the truth, I'd appreciate it if you correct your posts online to reflect it.

I'll gladly correct any factual mistakes as soon as I'm proven wrong.

For instance, getting back to:

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

what part of this sentence is false?

What part of it is false, uh...all of it, actually. You clearly don't have all the facts, read the bold portion below, again.

Well, if you read Ted's post (my first post above), you'd realize you were wrong right there...but hey...by all means, you obviously know more about this than Ted or I do, right? Just keep thinking I'll post the magic recipe online for everyone just to prove you wrong.

Sounds like you're friends with Stan Mucha, aka bmf5150. He had the same idea until proved wrong, and Ted told him he was.



Here's the link: http://drzamplifiers.proboards.com/inde ... 075&page=1

Post is about 1/2 way down the page. And here's what he wrote (figured I'd make it easy for you since you may not be a DrZ forum member) in reply to the question in quotes.

Quote:
Ted, could you clarify the difference between your pre-Rola treatment Greenbacks and Scumbacks?


Hmmm.. not sure how to address that.
Geez.. not a very good way to post my first response.


Anyway... Southbay sent me a bunch of vintage speakers with detailed notes on each one, what he liked about it, what he didn't. Now, these were all original, well broken in, and had a certain sound and character he heard in his head. So, he asked me to build a bunch of prototypes, document the treatments, parts, etc. and send them for evaluation. He picked the few that had that tone he had been hearing and those became the models he sells.

We've been doing Pre-Rola treatment for several years, we just didn't have it as an option until recently. What we do is lightly dope the surround and also lightly dope around the dustcap, about a 1/2" band on the face of the cone. We also chemically treat the cone to soften it, and also beat the heck out of it with our break-in procedure.

So, on to the difference. The P-R teatment just makes it sound old, out of the box, and slightly softer due to the aged cone.
It's nice for high volume+distortion work.

The SB speakers, again, have a tone he was hearing, and judging by his sales, it must be a good tone he had been hearing.
We are always behind the 8-ball on his orders.

It is a warmer, creamy tone, also good with high volume and distortion, with really good note detail at all volumes.


Ted
« Last Edit: Apr 9, 2007, 6:33pm by tedweber »


It never fails. There's always someone who knows more about this than Ted or I do. It's like a man trying to relate the pain of childbirth to a woman, and telling them what's what about it.

[rawnster]

+1 on the M75s. I've got a pair of 65-watters and they sound fantastic with my express and rocket builds.

[FYL]

What part of it is false, uh...all of it, actually. You clearly don't have all the facts, read the bold portion below, again.

Done, again. How does it contradict the following sentence, again:

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

Just keep thinking I'll post the magic recipe online for everyone just to prove you wrong.

I don't deal with magick, science has served me well for a few decades and hopefully will for a few more.

[paulster]

Sure, no need for MyTone, just send the right specs to Weber. And no, they won't help you if you fancy cloning Scumback or any other of their OEM designs.


(Hint: Bounce, Snuggle, Gain or Downy?)

So if you don't need to use MyTone, then how would an ordinary punter (like the OP for instance) order a Scumback-spec speaker from Weber? And where does the fabric softener hint come into it, unless you're hinting that that's what Weber will do before they deliver the speaker.