Hi Joshua,
I have both an Express and a Liverpool. I find both amps to be really bright. However, I've tweaked them a bit. First off, I use NOS Mullard 12ax7 preamp tubes in V1. They're kind of a "darker" sounding tube.
Next, I use the same cabinet for both amps. It's an Avatar 212. I'm currently running a Celestion G12H30 and a Weber Alnico Silver Bell in it. This cabinet sounds heavenly with both amps.
As for Greenbacks, I've tried real Celestions, and I like them with almost all of my amps. However, I also have a Marshall 412 with four Weber 1225 "Stan-Spec" speakers. These are Ted's Pre-Rola Greenback clones. I think these sound amazing. I haven't had the opportunity to compare them to the Scumbacks, but I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed.
Good Luck with your search.
Brad
What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is.
-- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949
-- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949
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geetarpicker
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Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Just about everything I've recorded with my original Express and Liverpool on Youtube and on my "Can You Hear It Ring?" instrumental guitar CD are early 70s era Celestion G12M 25s.
For live use lately I've been using Scumback M75 25 watters in a straight 4x12, or an M75 65 watter in a 1x12. I run 4 layers of felt from Walmart in front of the Scumbacks just to darken them up a tad, stapled from the inside of the cab. Maybe in a year or two I can pull the felt off. The Scumbacks are just a tad more efficient than my old speakers by 1-2db, but tonally they are very close maybe just a hair brighter but move the mic and inch or less and they are there. Actually with the felt they are probably a hair darker than my originals now, but that is ok.
On a vintage Celestion note I've tried to like G12H 30 watters but with the Wreck in time I tire of their extra top end and extra efficiency. I've owned both prerola greenback 30s and later blackback 30s but now it's all 25s for me. The 25s seem to break up more when pushed but clean up better backed off, adding to the amps already stellar clean to scream potential IMHO. Also the lower effeciency of the 25s is quite welcome on most stages. I've tried recent era G12M 25 watt "greenbacks" and they are a totally different sounding speaker, WAY brighter and nastier in the high end with no real give. That said, the recent era Heritage series G12M 20 watters sound great, but are even more pricey than the Scumbacks last I checked. They also have a little more fizz on top when really pushed where the 25s stay warm. The Heritage G12H 30s sound nice too, but are too bright and loud for my tastes these days.
One tune on my CD used new Alnico blue 15s, but I could only really get those to work for country and not much else. They did work for that one sort of tone though. The last cut of my CD uses mid 70s blackback 30s but with a really dark sounding Neumann tube mic to warm them up.
GK
www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall
For live use lately I've been using Scumback M75 25 watters in a straight 4x12, or an M75 65 watter in a 1x12. I run 4 layers of felt from Walmart in front of the Scumbacks just to darken them up a tad, stapled from the inside of the cab. Maybe in a year or two I can pull the felt off. The Scumbacks are just a tad more efficient than my old speakers by 1-2db, but tonally they are very close maybe just a hair brighter but move the mic and inch or less and they are there. Actually with the felt they are probably a hair darker than my originals now, but that is ok.
On a vintage Celestion note I've tried to like G12H 30 watters but with the Wreck in time I tire of their extra top end and extra efficiency. I've owned both prerola greenback 30s and later blackback 30s but now it's all 25s for me. The 25s seem to break up more when pushed but clean up better backed off, adding to the amps already stellar clean to scream potential IMHO. Also the lower effeciency of the 25s is quite welcome on most stages. I've tried recent era G12M 25 watt "greenbacks" and they are a totally different sounding speaker, WAY brighter and nastier in the high end with no real give. That said, the recent era Heritage series G12M 20 watters sound great, but are even more pricey than the Scumbacks last I checked. They also have a little more fizz on top when really pushed where the 25s stay warm. The Heritage G12H 30s sound nice too, but are too bright and loud for my tastes these days.
One tune on my CD used new Alnico blue 15s, but I could only really get those to work for country and not much else. They did work for that one sort of tone though. The last cut of my CD uses mid 70s blackback 30s but with a really dark sounding Neumann tube mic to warm them up.
GK
www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall
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Lonely Raven
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Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Glen, you are one of the very few guys I'd believe when they say they could perceive a 1-2 db difference between speakers in a 4X12. 
Jack of all Trades,
Master of None
Master of None
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geetarpicker
- Posts: 918
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Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Well, I'm actually commenting on the efficiency of the entire 4x12 cabinet. I'd say my Scumback equiped 4x12 is about 1-2 db louder than my original vintage cab. Maybe the difference of about 1 click on an Airbrake attenuator.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
GeetarPicker, if you'd be willing, I'd love to ask you a couple of questions.
If you had to choose modern speakers (4x12) for your amps, what would you choose?
Would you stick with a single type of driver, or would you split multiple speakers to a "top/bottom" or "X style" cab?
How would you go about the selection process?
Which driver(s) would you choose?
I'm looking for a cabinet for my fixed bias 2xel84 Express-inspired amp.
I'm financially limited to Avatar Speaker Cabinets. These are the easiest drivers for me to get.
V30's (currently using, not happy with)
G12H30 Anniversary
Greenbacks (OK, but I expected better)
G12T75's
Emenience Cannibis Rex (current fav *though unheard*)
Can you talk me thru the selection process? I would take my amp to the store, if there were stores around me with cabs loaded with these speakers. I've found a Greenback and a G12T75 cab. 1960AV and 1960A. But I can't find anything loaded with "Cannibis Rex's" or G12H30's. And I'm really thinking that a combination of the two would be nice.
I'll hang up and wait for your response.
Thanks,
Boggled in Bentonville.
If you had to choose modern speakers (4x12) for your amps, what would you choose?
Would you stick with a single type of driver, or would you split multiple speakers to a "top/bottom" or "X style" cab?
How would you go about the selection process?
Which driver(s) would you choose?
I'm looking for a cabinet for my fixed bias 2xel84 Express-inspired amp.
I'm financially limited to Avatar Speaker Cabinets. These are the easiest drivers for me to get.
V30's (currently using, not happy with)
G12H30 Anniversary
Greenbacks (OK, but I expected better)
G12T75's
Emenience Cannibis Rex (current fav *though unheard*)
Can you talk me thru the selection process? I would take my amp to the store, if there were stores around me with cabs loaded with these speakers. I've found a Greenback and a G12T75 cab. 1960AV and 1960A. But I can't find anything loaded with "Cannibis Rex's" or G12H30's. And I'm really thinking that a combination of the two would be nice.
I'll hang up and wait for your response.
Thanks,
Boggled in Bentonville.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Glen - Is there any insulation in the 4/12 of any kind? The back of the cab is baltic birch, right? Is your 1/12 a closed or open back cab?
I agree with you on the newer greenbacks, even the ones that were made in England and moved to China, but I do run one of them (English)in my 4/12 just to mix it up. A shame Celestion can't nick their own work better...
What is your take on the Weber ceramic Blue Dog, BTW? Have you tried one lately? Weber has a way of building speakers for others, and then bringing that piece into his line to some degree. I have compared them with some vintage blackbacks in an open cab and I was very impressed. These were undoped 50 watters and although they were pretty fresh, you could hear the relationship, definitely cousins. ??
Everytime you mention that felt I just freakout, BTW!! I have not tried a Scumback but that just seems like a lot of bright if you are having to do that. Woah...
I agree with you on the newer greenbacks, even the ones that were made in England and moved to China, but I do run one of them (English)in my 4/12 just to mix it up. A shame Celestion can't nick their own work better...
What is your take on the Weber ceramic Blue Dog, BTW? Have you tried one lately? Weber has a way of building speakers for others, and then bringing that piece into his line to some degree. I have compared them with some vintage blackbacks in an open cab and I was very impressed. These were undoped 50 watters and although they were pretty fresh, you could hear the relationship, definitely cousins. ??
Everytime you mention that felt I just freakout, BTW!! I have not tried a Scumback but that just seems like a lot of bright if you are having to do that. Woah...
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
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geetarpicker
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Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
My favorite are the old 25 Celestions, and the Scumback "M75" repros of the same are the best repros I've heard. I think Jim at Scumback along with Ted Weber (the actual maker) just plain put more time and effort into the replication process of these than anyone else has done to date. Though they tend to be a tiny bit brighter they do seem to be mellowing more with time and eventually I may even pull out the felt I used to mellow them out a little. Even out of the box they aren't as bright as 30 watters even old original broken in 30s.
I have 3 old Marshall 4x12 basket weave style cabs. All have original plywood backs and no insulation. My main recording cab is a '68 slant with all old 25s. My other studio cab is a '68 straight with one old lone 30 in it but the other 3 are 25s one black, one green, one grey. The straight sounds nice, but my slant is my fave. My last cab is an ugly beater '70 or so straight and has the Scumback M75 25s in it for a handy gigging cab I don't have to baby as much as the others. They all have the original style basketweave cloth, which in itself helps the tone as it cuts some of the highs compared to other more modern grills. I originally didn't have this cloth on my beater cab, but after installing some it was noticable.
My 1x12 is an odd item. I built it out of a parted out Gallien-Krueger combo bass amp by cutting off the upper chassis part. It is sealed and like most of the small Gallien-Krueger stuff made 100% out of 1/8" or so thick aluminum. It is barely larger than a cardboard speaker shipping box, at 13x13.5x7. I use the 1x12 for my guitar clinics. The EQ of this little cab is suprisingly flat, like a sealed 4x12 at least in the highs and mids. I run the cab attenuated with a Hotplate and then mic it into my small PA at my clinics. The cab has nice highs and mids but not much deep bass below about 120hz or so. I found that if I took a line out off the amp's 2nd speaker jack and ran that through a simple passive low pass filter I could use that as a virtual sub woofer. I made up a small box that is simply a speaker to line level attenuator and the low pass filter I came up with. By mixing the direct sound (for deep lows) with the miced up 1x12 I can fairly closely replicate the 4x12 tones on my CD with the tiny 1x12. I then put the 1x12 up on a stand or stool so that I can get within inches of it to get the controlled feedback working even at about -8db attenuation using a Hotplate. Like I said, an odd setup but this works well for my guitar clinics. For years I had a Mesa Thiele port 1x12, that I tried in ALL kinds of configurations (sealed, ported, open) and with MANY types of speakers including Scumbacks and was never quite happy with the results. I actually like my little aluminum 1x12 even better than the Mesa though it has even less efficiency but the sound is comprable and possibly a little less stiff sounding and it's an even smaller cab. The cab is quite directional and very inefficient, but it works very well miced up with a Sennheiser e906. A bonus is it will fit in a suitcase and pass for checked baggage.
Those are all my speaker secrets!
GK
www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall
I have 3 old Marshall 4x12 basket weave style cabs. All have original plywood backs and no insulation. My main recording cab is a '68 slant with all old 25s. My other studio cab is a '68 straight with one old lone 30 in it but the other 3 are 25s one black, one green, one grey. The straight sounds nice, but my slant is my fave. My last cab is an ugly beater '70 or so straight and has the Scumback M75 25s in it for a handy gigging cab I don't have to baby as much as the others. They all have the original style basketweave cloth, which in itself helps the tone as it cuts some of the highs compared to other more modern grills. I originally didn't have this cloth on my beater cab, but after installing some it was noticable.
My 1x12 is an odd item. I built it out of a parted out Gallien-Krueger combo bass amp by cutting off the upper chassis part. It is sealed and like most of the small Gallien-Krueger stuff made 100% out of 1/8" or so thick aluminum. It is barely larger than a cardboard speaker shipping box, at 13x13.5x7. I use the 1x12 for my guitar clinics. The EQ of this little cab is suprisingly flat, like a sealed 4x12 at least in the highs and mids. I run the cab attenuated with a Hotplate and then mic it into my small PA at my clinics. The cab has nice highs and mids but not much deep bass below about 120hz or so. I found that if I took a line out off the amp's 2nd speaker jack and ran that through a simple passive low pass filter I could use that as a virtual sub woofer. I made up a small box that is simply a speaker to line level attenuator and the low pass filter I came up with. By mixing the direct sound (for deep lows) with the miced up 1x12 I can fairly closely replicate the 4x12 tones on my CD with the tiny 1x12. I then put the 1x12 up on a stand or stool so that I can get within inches of it to get the controlled feedback working even at about -8db attenuation using a Hotplate. Like I said, an odd setup but this works well for my guitar clinics. For years I had a Mesa Thiele port 1x12, that I tried in ALL kinds of configurations (sealed, ported, open) and with MANY types of speakers including Scumbacks and was never quite happy with the results. I actually like my little aluminum 1x12 even better than the Mesa though it has even less efficiency but the sound is comprable and possibly a little less stiff sounding and it's an even smaller cab. The cab is quite directional and very inefficient, but it works very well miced up with a Sennheiser e906. A bonus is it will fit in a suitcase and pass for checked baggage.
Those are all my speaker secrets!
GK
www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Abstract-
I talked with Glen recently at a Nashville clinic and he says he really doesn't have experience with the Eminence speakers. I've tried the Cannabis Rex with my TR Ruby and can report it sounds very musical with a Trainwreck style amp. The only niggle with it is it is a bit TOO smooth - you lose some of the "cut" that these amps have. I'm going to try a Wizard soon, but I expect to have to dial back the treble considerably. The closest for Glen's type sound would probably be a Private Jack, which I haven't tried. I guess I'm going for a cleaner more modern sound than some do.
I talked with Glen recently at a Nashville clinic and he says he really doesn't have experience with the Eminence speakers. I've tried the Cannabis Rex with my TR Ruby and can report it sounds very musical with a Trainwreck style amp. The only niggle with it is it is a bit TOO smooth - you lose some of the "cut" that these amps have. I'm going to try a Wizard soon, but I expect to have to dial back the treble considerably. The closest for Glen's type sound would probably be a Private Jack, which I haven't tried. I guess I'm going for a cleaner more modern sound than some do.
Let that boy boogie woogie.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Oh, I just reread your post and it appears you plan to do a 2 X 12. I would think a Cannibis Rex plus a Wizard or G12H30 could be a great combination for that.
Let that boy boogie woogie.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Glen - Hey, thanks for the input. I like the idea of a 1/12 - small - but I am hard pressed to choose a cab and buy a particular speaker for it. I do get that there is a particular sound to an EXP when it is doing things correctly, and here a 4/12 works pretty well of course.
FWIW, I also run a newer Vox 2/12 loaded with a silver dog and a blue dog Weber, 50 watters and Alnico both, and they sound really good but lack that 4/12 thump and a fair amount of that lower midrange singing sustain thing. Hmm. Having read your post I think I will put a back on the 2/12 cab and see what happens. It is not very deep but then neither is your single 12 cab. Thanks again for sharing, Glenn. YOU ROCK!!!
FWIW, I also run a newer Vox 2/12 loaded with a silver dog and a blue dog Weber, 50 watters and Alnico both, and they sound really good but lack that 4/12 thump and a fair amount of that lower midrange singing sustain thing. Hmm. Having read your post I think I will put a back on the 2/12 cab and see what happens. It is not very deep but then neither is your single 12 cab. Thanks again for sharing, Glenn. YOU ROCK!!!
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Actually, I'm doing a 4x12. Probably X with 2 CRex's and the other two haven't been decided.mojo wrote:Oh, I just reread your post and it appears you plan to do a 2 X 12. I would think a Cannibis Rex plus a Wizard or G12H30 could be a great combination for that.
Thanks for the replies.
/hijack
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Just tried a Wizard in a 1 X 12 cab with a TR Ruby. Not bad, but I don't recommend it with this style amp. Too much treble, too chunky, not nearly as smooth and musical as the Cannabis Rex. In combination with the Rex sounds good.
Let that boy boogie woogie.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
Abstract-
I think after my most recent experiment, I'd suggest a combination of 2 Cannabis Rex's with 2 Red Fangs. I haven't tried a Fang, but it is supposed to be very similar to a Blues, which I have tried. I think the combination of the Rex with the Fangs would be spectacular.
I think after my most recent experiment, I'd suggest a combination of 2 Cannabis Rex's with 2 Red Fangs. I haven't tried a Fang, but it is supposed to be very similar to a Blues, which I have tried. I think the combination of the Rex with the Fangs would be spectacular.
Let that boy boogie woogie.
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
I made the 1 piece back for the Vox 2/12 cab. It was an intersting construction job because the back could only be 1/2" thick. I had to use 4 vertlcal 1X2s to toughen it up. But finally it is very stout.
At this point I have to say that to my ear my EXP clone prefers the closed back cab over the former open back cab. Its the 'thump' thing. BTW, I ditched the silver bell, and added a ceramic blue dog, ending up with one alnico blue bell and the blue dog. This combination sounds just right for me, YMMV.
Someday I will try a Scumback, the press here is so good, but right now I don't have the cake.
BTW, see my ad for the Red Fang. This was OK in the cab but was maybe too different from the blue dog. Yeah, it was a dog fight somehow, not for me.
At this point I have to say that to my ear my EXP clone prefers the closed back cab over the former open back cab. Its the 'thump' thing.
BTW, I ditched the silver bell, and added a ceramic blue dog, ending up with one alnico blue bell and the blue dog. This combination sounds just right for me, YMMV. Someday I will try a Scumback, the press here is so good, but right now I don't have the cake.
BTW, see my ad for the Red Fang. This was OK in the cab but was maybe too different from the blue dog. Yeah, it was a dog fight somehow, not for me.Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: What speakers do you use with your Trainwreck Express?
mojo - You didn't say, is that an open back 1/12? Isn't the Cannibus Rex a clone of the Tone Tubby? Man, I dig how you like it so much, I will have to try one.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?