new speaker suggestions for Liverpool

[dartanion]

Jim,

True, it is wise to correct misconceptions. However, taking shots at each other in the process helps no one. Indeed, FYL said he likes your speakers, albeit to expensive in his opinion. From there it became a pissing match, and no one cares who started it. All you needed to say was "Nope. Proprietary process."

[paulster]

And since you're here, Darin, which of yours work well with a Liverpool in a 2x12 closed back cab?

And, going off-topic for a moment, are the old cast frame Fanes (à la Hiwatt or David Gilmour's WEMs) ever going to be reissued?

[dartanion]

And since you're here, Darin, which of yours work well with a Liverpool in a 2x12 closed back cab?

And, going off-topic for a moment, are the old cast frame Fanes (à la Hiwatt or David Gilmour's WEMs) ever going to be reissued?

Since you asked, I will answer. If anyone is further interested, please contact me privately.

I prefer the AXA 12s and Medusa 150s with a Liverpool in a closed back 212. The combination of these two is quite nice as well. My gig-rig uses one 212 with AXAs and one 212 with 150s.

It's funny that you ask about the cast frames. I have been working on this with Fane for a while, and we are to a point where I need to get some numbers together on sales forecasting. We need sell around 1000 units this year to make it worth the investment, which I think is doable, but I need solid numbers to show that. In the interim, I am having Crescendo A, Purple cast frame (122142), and Purple steel frame (122231) prototypes built. The cast frames will use their current cast chassis as we don't have the tooling yet for the vintage cast chassis. When I get my numbers together, I'll have a better idea if this is feasible.

[ampman1961]

We use and offer, the Studio 12L in our 1X12 Mahogany Cabinets for those who wish to have a bit of low end grunt without being mushy or tubby.
It is a terrific sounding speaker, and when used in conjunction with another of our 1x12 loaded with Alnico Gold or G12 H30, it is even more dramatic.
By itself, it is more articulate than any other in this class of transducer that we have tried to date. It is a stunning piece. We did a shootout at East West Studios in Hollywood recently with Gary Myerberg and Phil Xendis. They were floored at how much low end could exit from that 1x12 and amp combination.
The amp used was our modified Liverpool circuit.
We have not tried any of Jim's speakers to date although I have in the past on other amps with very good success.

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim,

True, it is wise to correct misconceptions. However, taking shots at each other in the process helps no one. Indeed, FYL said he likes your speakers, albeit to expensive in his opinion. From there it became a pissing match, and no one cares who started it. All you needed to say was "Nope. Proprietary process."

Somewhere you missed this snide comment from FYL I guess dartanion?

You can order a Weber with the right specs and end up with a Scumback equivalent, minus magick dust, brand, label and markup.

Would my posts have been necessary without that remark? Well of course not.

Maybe no one else cares who started it, but excuse me if I do, and the couple of members who contacted me to tell me about, of course. Maybe if your products were being talked about this way, you'd understand it better.

I tried to be nice, when that didn't work, I challenged FYL to prove his statements. In the course of that, he got cute, slanderous and got his butt handed to him for his ignorance. I didn't start this, you know, I just defended my product, and tried to correct it nicely first.

[rawnster]

Well sense Darin chimed in, I'll say a few things about the Fane speakers he sells. I've played the Medusa 150's; very cool speaker. But the King of the line is the AXA alnico. They sound terrific with TW models. I was recently playing my express build through a 1x12 open-back cab with an 8ohm AXA. It has loads of bottom end and clarity. I was seriously taken back by how good it sounded. Geez, I bought into the paradigm that the express is suppose to be paired up with greenbacks, or something similar. The Fane AXA will beg to differ.

[dartanion]

Be the better man Jim. I found nothing snide about the statement you put in bold. But again, that's my opinion/brown sound

Thanks for the props Billy and Ron.

[Richie]

Geez, I bought into the paradigm that the express is suppose to be paired up with greenbacks, or something similar. The Fane AXA will beg to differ

That one word"greenbacks" like many things some sound great some not so great, new compared to well broken in etc.. I'm sure many speakers can sound good,i doubt every speaker has been tried.
It might be good to try different ones.
I built an 18 watter a long while back, 2x12. The guy got a couple of old early silver alnico vox speakers.
WOW, i loved the sound of those speakers in that amp.
Sometimes picking a speaker,if the amp is bright,go with a more low end speaker will help.
The fanes i have heard do sound good. Glen has a scumbag in his cab too. If you listen to the same amp, played with different speakers,you'll hear how it can make a huge change.
You just have to pic one "you" like. Some places have sound files,same amp/guitar using different speakers,and you can hear the difference.

[dartanion]

Exactly Richie. It's the Baskins Robins affect. You may like rocky road in waffle cone with sprinkles while I may like a double dip of raspberry sorbet in a sugar cone.

Here's a nice link that a client sent to me a while back:

http://www.watfordvalves.com/soundfactory.asp

This is cool as you get to listen to the same track with the guitar part amped through all these different speakers. It's still internet audio clips, but it gives you a good baseline expectation of tone.

[redshark]

Nice variety of speakers.....Actually if you listen carefully I think the weber silver bell is one of the best. I bet it could sound great with an express.

[geetarpicker]

The nicest sounding original Liverpool I've played sounded killer though a Vox AC30 2x12 combo cab (converted into an ext. cab) with Celestion Alnico blues. They were some of Ken's personal speakers, though I didn't check to see if they were original blues or the new repros. That said they really teamed up with the Liverpool nicely. Not much deep low end, but somehow it was fine that way. According to Ken he helped with the R&D for the reissue 15 watt Alnicos. I wouldn't use them in a pair with an Express as they probably wouldn't last, but it seems a pair can handle a Liverpool fine. Personally I like G12Ms better with an Express, but the blues just seem to work with EL84s.

[paulster]

I've had reasonably good results using a Liverpool through a Vox cabinet with a pair of Celestion Golds, which kind of ties in with what Glen was saying.

The Golds have a bit more bottom end than the Blues, so that didn't hurt either.

I still prefer the 4x12 closed-back with the Scumbacks though for this amp, but the Golds were definitely good. It would be interesting to hear a pair of Golds in a closed-back cab and see how that worked as these speakers seem also to work really well in closed-back cabinets.

[ampman1961]

When the first batch of Alnico Gold's hit the scene, I tried one out at the LA AmpShow. I thought they were a bit harsh. Since then, the design has been improved greatly. Rick Skillman brought over a sample to try in our new MH 1-12 cabinet. It handled my 45 with ease, and sounded very smooth and articulate with a pronounced bark that didn't hurt your ears. This would be described best as a mid "hump" that stretched over a couple of octaves rather than a spike at a narrower Q. During the last LA show, that speaker was HAMMERED all day long and never complained. Sounded great. Joe Bonamassa, Chuck D'Aloia and Carl Verheyan liked it very much, and it seemed to me that it favors any guitar, especially the LSL T-Bone's we were displaying. But, the real treat was how it sounded with the 18 watt and Liverpool amps.The sound really came alive when we connected two cabs together using the 12L. Every part of the guitar sound spectrum was in full effect. What's so fun about all of this, is discovering what works for the individual...when those notes have real tonal meaning and inspires your playing.

[dartanion]

For clarification, Billy is referring to the Fane Studio 12L speaker, which has been around since the 70's. They do sound great in Billy's Red Jones cabs too! They have also been popular in my Tonic 212s. I got a lot of compliments at the Austin Amp Show of my Torpedo 30 through a 212C (closed back) cab load with these speakers.

[paulster]

Billy

If you get a chance, try a pair of Golds in an open-backed cab with a quad of Scumbacks M75s or other another good Greenback type speaker in a Marshall-style cab. The high sensitivity of the Golds balances out nicely with the quad of Scumbacks and works really well with the Liverpool or Express.

It makes for a seriously loud (nearly) full stack, but sounds fantastic with it!