Trainwreck Clones...

[Wheeler004]

Okay, so I'm new to the board here (I was sent here my a member of TGP). I have been an avid collector of gear for a while, but mostly guitars and effects. I had always heard people talking about how great Dumbles are and I have long assumed them to be the best amps in the business (although honestly, I must admit I have never really gotten the whole Dumble infatuation; great tone, but not epic in the way a $40K amp should be).

Several days ago I was doing some research, trying to educate myself on amplifiers (like I said, I've always been a guitar and effects guy). I came across a demo of the Trainwreck Express by Glen Kuykendall. It was so beautiful I almost broke down in tears. I have since found numerous demos and I cannot get enough. I will own one of these amps one day, but sadly that day is not today. So, my question to you all is, what is the best clone of a Trainwreck amp? Also, which model of Trainwreck should I be looking for? I really like creamy, bluesy tone if that helps...

[UR12]

Okay, so I'm new to the board here (I was sent here my a member of TGP). I have been an avid collector of gear for a while, but mostly guitars and effects. I had always heard people talking about how great Dumbles are and I have long assumed them to be the best amps in the business (although honestly, I must admit I have never really gotten the whole Dumble infatuation; great tone, but not epic in the way a $40K amp should be).

Several days ago I was doing some research, trying to educate myself on amplifiers (like I said, I've always been a guitar and effects guy). I came across a demo of the Trainwreck Express by Glen Kuykendall. It was so beautiful I almost broke down in tears. I have since found numerous demos and I cannot get enough. I will own one of these amps one day, but sadly that day is not today. So, my question to you all is, what is the best clone of a Trainwreck amp? Also, which model of Trainwreck should I be looking for? I really like creamy, bluesy tone if that helps...

I don't know that we have ever held a contest to crown one builder "the best". Some people will tell you that no one can build a TW amp that sounds as good as a Ken Fisher original. I believe there are a handfull of builders out there who have proved that they can. Unfortunatly we get a lot of flak around here and on other forums for cloning Ken's designs for sale so I am not sure you will get a good answer to your question in this open forum. If you would like to PM me I can provide you with a few options that may help you decide by getting answers to the right questions.

Glen does some awesome things with his Wreck. If you like the sound of that then you are looking for an Express. The Liverpool is another option. It has the same preamp as the Express but differs in that the power section is 4 x xEl84 instead of 2 El34s. Then there is the 4 x EL84 Rocket . It is a more cleaner sounding amp that takes pedals well and isn't as gainy as its two siblings but a great amp in it's own right.

[M Fowler]

Welcome,

Edited because Dana beat me to the posting.

Glen is using a Trainwreck Express which uses either 6V6 or EL34 power section on those great videos. The Liverpool has same preamp section but with four EL84 power section and the Rocket my favorite has a totally different preamp, tube rectifier and four EL84 power section.

They all sound great.

Mark

[geetarpicker]

It is true that most of my videos are of an Express using EL34s. However there are 3 that I posted earlier this year from '91 or so playing an original Liverpool.
The ones on the cable TV enterview show are a Liverpool, Altair attenuator, and a 1x12 probably with a vintage 30 in it if I recall correctly.

Cheers,
GK

[jjman]

I watched that cable interview again last night. The playing at the end seemed just a little "crunchier" than the Express clips so I guess that's the EL84s in the Liverpool. Either way I'm always mesmerized by Glen's playing and the tone.

I checked out a bunch of Dumble clips recently and haven’t felt their magic. They do have a loop and some have reverb which may be important to you. I put a parallel loop in my homebrew pseudo-Express for delay/reverb since those don’t work well in front of a cranked Express circuit. The Trainwrecks are simpler in circuitry than the Dumbles which may be either good or bad from your point of view.

If you have built any amps in the past, I’d recommend building a Trainwreck type amp. I’m not sure but I think buying all the parts yourself is the most economical approach. There are Bills of Materials and build guides in the “Files” section. Or you could buy a kit which I believe is more $. Or buy a “clone” for still more $$. Or buy a real one for $$$.

[rawnster]

Welcome Wheeler004. Like you, I’ve played guitar a long while, but had never dipped into building amps. Glenn’s recordings are an inspiration. I took the plunge, and now a year later have put together two built trainwreck builds….an express and rocket. For my style and approach, the rocket fits best. It’s got sparkly cleans and enough grind to get you rocking if needed. I love how it eats pedals too. And it’s much easier on preamp tubes. That is, it’s not nearly as picky with what you stick in it as an express.

You really can't go wrong with any of the trainwreck circuits. I enjoy my clones so much that a particular hi-end double-stone amp has been collecting lots of dust.

[Plexified]

I too would recomend the quest to build yoursef . If thats a bit out of your league I find a wealth of great builder here . Ken was kind of a what the doctor orderdered type of builder . He could tweak an individual part in a certain direction . The 4 tube approach adds a bit of texture and thats what guitar amps are about , texture . It all stacks up . If you like Glens tone , you would need to start with a quality guitar you like and introduce a quality PAF style pickup . That will enable a builder or yourself to voice the amp . Many different techniques are very well documented on how to shift the voicing , from there it does come down to parts that compliment your goals .
Some time ago when doing my own research I found certain build requirements in transformers , both the power and output that are critical . Many capacitors are the same as resistors in the signal path . It all seems to stack up to and end result . Some of the vintage wrecks are very expensive as are the Dumble offerings . With all that money spent it still may not meet your goals . Time is often money . Your in great hands here and could very well invest some time and some learning and wind up with the skills to voice an amp to meet your needs . Many have been able to do that , and it is a blessing to do so. If you endeavor to be safe first and foremost and can hang a little and do some reading , you are capable to learn how to accomplish those goals . Many here are inspired in much the same way and I certainly admire the desire to do so . Ken wanted all of us to learn that core goal . He just seemed to have an ability to get from point A to point B while you were in the room while the chassis was on the bench . But your journey seems young and remeber time is money in alot of ways , it just depends on how you want to spend it . Welcome to a wonderful world of exchange , ideas and enthusiasm , your in good hands !

[Plexified]

I checked out a bit early and was thinking of an analogy . If you consider Elvis . He lived the lives of many a man , although he seemed to leave us early . In addition if you consider Hendrix . If we were to learn his songs we could still not capture his experience . He played for many a year under some pressure and suppression that made him play or express himself the way he did . Its hard to walk in a mans shoes . You can never replicate the journey , however , its hard to walk in our own shoes at times . Its the desire to persevere and keep moving forward believing that tommorrow is a better day . Blue Sky never got anyone down .

[Phil_S]

This is a challenging amp to build. Like others say, it's hard to know if anyone is really capable of cloning the amp. Apparently, there are some who do a decent job, though. IMO, at some point, it must be hard to hear the difference. <zip, flame suit on>.

[Zippy]

If you like Glens tone , you would need to start with a quality guitar you like and introduce a quality PAF style pickup . That will enable a builder or yourself to voice the amp . Many different techniques are very well documented on how to shift the voicing , from there it does come down to parts that compliment your goals .

FWIW, there is anecdotal evidence shared via Derek Ferwerda that Ken Fisher preferred single coil pickups. That the amps work well with PAFs is just a bonus. If you go too hot with the humbuckers, you are outside the envelope.

[Plexified]

Zippy , great point , Ken loved a Tele . The PAF was Gibsons answer . Maybe some more bite and push , and of course the added lack of hum in the 'lights' on stage . But the majority of Kens set ups were converts that played Tele bridge PU'ps not because they liked a Tele . I'm one and I know Ken Dubman was another .

[dartanion]

Welcome to TAG Wheeler004!

Great place to hang out and learn all things amps. Welcome to the asylum!

[Wheeler004]

Welcome to TAG Wheeler004!

Great place to hang out and learn all things amps. Welcome to the asylum!

Thanks! I have already learned a lot from this forum. Thanks to all those who have responded!