Anyone built a trainwreck and not liked it?

[drz400]

I did a real nice job, used all the right transformers, everything was in the proper place, correct components. I really didnt like it, it all worked fine but was too midrangey for me, not enough punch, increasing the coupling cap gave it more balls but then it was too mushy when pushing the gain. Anyone else just not happy with it when they were done?

[Allynmey]

Can you post a clip. It doesn't sound like a description of a wreck. I just finished one and it is tight...very tight! Turning it up adds compression and gain not mush. What guitars have you tried with it?

[leaveitalone84]

Drz400,

What type of cab and speakers did you use?
What type of tubes?
Did you use an attenuator?
Gut shots?
Did you use it in a band setting?

[Allynmey]

DRZ400, here is a typical pic of one of my wrecks. Did you use this layout? Tubes and trannys are the biggest part of a wreck along with the signal caps.

[Buschman]

They are not for everybody. I can see where increasing coupling caps would make it mush. Mine is not tight like a plexi. It is very musical though. It is a buttery sounding amp at lower volumes with lots of growl at higher volumes. Most of us have tweaked extensivily. Maybe you tweaked in the wrong direction. The tone controls are very interactive. They can almost be used as a master volume like a tweed bassman. Turn them all the way down & ease in what sounds good to you. Also give it several hours to burn in.

[Bob-I]

If I understand it correctly, Ken Fisher himself did exactly what you describe. He built amps that just never had the magic and after tweaking and tuning, he gave up and took them apart.

[Phil_S]

I can see where this amp isn't for everyone. The Express variant I built is very touchy and seems to live on the edge of oscillation. I'm in the midst of tweaking it a bit to see if I can reduce the hiss, which is typical of a high gain amp. Once opened up, this amp moves into overdrive territory pretty quickly. I'm using a Celestion G10L-35 with it. It did not like my 2x12 Jensen C12R's nearly as much. I think that is because the amp is so bright to begin with.

Mine isn't true to the original. I'm using 6AQ5 outputs (these are nearly equivalent to a 6V6 except they need lower plate voltage). Also, I'm using iron more suited to the lower output.

Even so, I've built several amps, including an 18W plexi. The Express really has some magic to it that I can't describe. When it was up and running, I couldn't stay away from it. I was a skeptic, but am now convinced there is something indescribable about it. I don't think I'd select this amp for jazz and maybe not for country, either. It's got plenty of sparkle, but maybe not so much clean headroom. Even so, it doesn't get real dirty, either, in comparison to the 18W.

Muddy is not a word that comes to mind. Mine is very articulate. IMO, yours might need something to make it "right". Hard to know without seeing/hearing.

[geetarpicker]

IMHO if you run the bass knob much past half way or 1:00 (I know depending on pot taper this can vary) the low end will get a little loose. To be honest these amps seemed to be voiced around a nice 4x12. Not sure what you have for speakers, but if I couldn't use my Wreck with a 4x12 I probably wouldn't like it either. Some 2x12s are workable, but a 1x12 is downright puny sounding compared to what the amp can really do on a good 4x12. That said, miked up through a good PA things can be more forgiving with the smaller cabs at least from the audience perspective.

Still, these amps are VERY variable depending on what exact components are. It will be interesting to hear the details in that department...

www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall

[Fischerman]

drz400,
I'd say your experiance is similar to mine. My amp seemed to work great...it wasn't noisy, didn't hum, didn't oscillate...but it just wasn't working for me. I'd fire it up and play ZZ Top for 5 minutes and then be bored with it. I'm used to Marshalls (often goosed with something) for dirt and BF Fenders for clean so that's my 'tone home' if you will. To me a Marshall has more punch and not as crunchy of a midrange...hard to describe. I also don't have any finesse with the volume control and it seems that the guys that do these amps justice all ride their volume control a lot. I also think that my amp was likely not a great example of an Express...not a bad one either...but not great.

Also, some players just play brighter/darker than others. When an old bass player used to switch to guitar for a few songs we couldn't believe the difference between him (uses the round side of a Fender Heavy pick which is parallel to strings) and me (Jazz III held between middle finger and thumb and I 'saw' at the strings so pick is more perpindicular to the strings). I'm very bright and he's very dark.

FWIW, After I built my Express I went over to the Dumble forum and built an ODS and I don't think those amps are quite for me either (but again...this is only based on my half-assed homebrew). So I'm back to my 'default' tones; BF Fender clean, Marshall crunch, rodded-Marshall lead, and a just-barely-breaking-up Vox (lol, Glen can get three of these just by turning his volume knob! ). At some point I just decided to stop trying to put a square peg (me) into a round hole (Express).

[drz400]

Can you post a clip. It doesn't sound like a description of a wreck. I just finished one and it is tight...very tight! Turning it up adds compression and gain not mush. What guitars have you tried with it?

Actually I tried a real one years before and didnt like that either, they sounded pretty much the same from my memory. I did a great job, positive nothing was missed, it scoped just beautiful, I have good experience with board layout and was a solder inspector for the military when I was 25 (now I'm 50) I did it all turrets on a FR4 board with standard layout. my own grounding but the amp was quiet and stable.
It just didnt sound as 3D as my other amps, Express and I tweaked it for days.
I liked the tone of bigger coupling cap like a .0047 or .01 but they dont work well when cranking it. It wasnt bad or anything, just I was expecting more. I like fullness and tightness on the bottom end.
Amp has long ago been turned into something else More plexi with a bit more gain I liked much better, but there is another guy (and a great player) who told me he didnt care for it either so I was curious. I'm also just not thrilled with EQ in the front when getting gain tones. I also dont care for the sound of small coupling caps to dump bass, I prefer tweaking it in the cathodes, the notes sound fatter to me this way without being mushy, I think this amp just isnt my cup of tea.

[drz400]

Drz400,

What type of cab and speakers did you use?
What type of tubes?
Did you use an attenuator?
Gut shots?
Did you use it in a band setting?

Tried V30's in a 4x12
G12M's in a 4x12
1x12 with V 30 and 2 golds in an open back 2x12

tubes ... I tried a few powers, have some NOS preamps lying around, I like chinese 12AX7's and like an occasional JJ
It wasnt about tweaking it was about the design of the circuit.
No attenuator, volume is not an issue
No gut shots
Yes I tried it in a band situation
Historic Gold top with BR fingerboard, Custom Shop 62 SG, Suhr Classic and a PRS quilt top
It wasnt horrible or anything, just didnt really do much for me, I would rather play through my BF Super, Marshally circuit it became or any of my other amps. Which include an Elmwood90, BadCat Hotcat, Carr Rambler and a Suhr Badger (also a 5150III which is going on the chopping block or I will mod it) . My favorite amps are for different playing purpose but my favorites are the Elmwood and the Badger for different purposes . I did build a non HRM Humble that I liked a lot, but not for what I personally play.

[leaveitalone84]

Drz400,

What type of cab and speakers did you use?
What type of tubes?
Did you use an attenuator?
Gut shots?
Did you use it in a band setting?

Tried V30's in a 4x12
G12M's in a 4x12
1x12 with V 30 and 2 golds in an open back 2x12

tubes ... I tried a few powers, have some NOS preamps lying around, I like chinese 12AX7's and like an occasional JJ
It wasnt about tweaking it was about the design of the circuit.
No attenuator, volume is not an issue
No gut shots
Yes I tried it in a band situation
Historic Gold top with BR fingerboard, Custom Shop 62 SG, Suhr Classic and a PRS quilt top
It wasnt horrible or anything, just didnt really do much for me, I would rather play through my BF Super, Marshally circuit it became or any of my other amps. Which include an Elmwood90, BadCat Hotcat, Carr Rambler and a Suhr Badger (also a 5150III which is going on the chopping block or I will mod it) . My favorite amps are for different playing purpose but my favorites are the Elmwood and the Badger for different purposes . I did build a non HRM Humble that I liked a lot, but not for what I personally play.

Well everyones got different tastes. I was sorta with Allyn in that your description really didn't sound like a wreck. Thats why I had that volley of questions.

From my experience my Express clone didn't sound really good until I put a set of 50's RCA Blackplates in V1 and V2. With modern production tubes (besides some tung-sols the amp came with) it was indeed too midrangey and didn't have enough punch. Now it has a hotrodded fender/marshall vibe to it. That stereotypical express vibe.

But YMMV. These amps are highly dependent on how you play too. My buddies will play my amp but dont like the tone. But they love it if I play it...if that makes any sense.

[Allynmey]

I haven't found any new production tubes that I liked in them.

NOS Siemens are the power tubes for the Express. Make sure they are matched. Pres are NOS Tungsrams or Pre war EI's. That is the TW sound. You can make it darker or brighter by mixing up different NOS tubes but, Ken liked those and usually shipped the amps with those. They are transparent. It sounds like you have a speaker plugged into your guitar with no amp...only really f%^$ing loud!

[Rattlecat]

I am in the same boat. The wreck just isn't for me. I prefer a goosed marshall. Everyone else seemed to like the wreck I built, and I did for a while, but the romance fizzled quickly. Too bright, too loud. I also have come to realize that I'm just not an el34 guy and maybe that was the problem. The amp has since been rebuilt, but I have recently kindled a new romance with 6v6's and now wish I had tried them in the wreck before abandoning it.

[jaysg]

I haven't found any new production tubes that I liked in them.

Same go for the Liverpool?