Clone vs real deal... mp3?

[Richie]

here is what GT says..

Many folks who buy our tubes know that we use a special process to categorically rate our tubes so that players can select the tubes that best fit their preferred tones and styles. However, we get a lot of
questions about our rating system, and what the numbers actually mean.

Here is a brief description.

RATING 1 to 3: Offers an early and wide range of distortion and a softer attack. These tubes are great for Rock and Blues solos.

RATING 4 to 7: Our normal performance tube rating. It's the best all around rating for all types of playing.
RATING 8 to 10: GT's most dynamic, most clean power rating. These tubes are good for power players, Jazz, and bass amps.

[LeftyStrat]

X definitely seems to have an upper midrange creaminess to it that Y doesn't, but maybe I'm hearing slant vs straight. I first listened through my laptop speakers and thought X had more distortion character, but then listened through some studio monitor speakers and I think what I am hearing is that the transition from clean to distortion is different between the two. Almost like X is in "fast" mode and Y is in "gradual" mode to use Komet terms.

Both sound great though. My guess is X is the real one and Y is the clone.

Though to really know for sure I'd have to play them both

[nickt]

No idea which is "real" but liked X better

Loved the playing!

[Structo]

You watch and it will turn out to be a trick question.
They are both the original and the difference is the cab.
Just playing the devils advocate here.

[geetarpicker]

I will admit that my slant does sound better than my straight, even with the same amp. My slant seems to break up a little more when pushed, which gives it more dirt on top but then a cleaner tone when backed off. If anything my slant adds more overall character to the sound. My '68 slant has x4 Pulsonic cone 25s. My '68 straight actually has just x1 green 25 (early pulsonic cone like those in my slant), x1 creme 25, x1 black 25, and one (probably original to the cab) prerola 30. That said, on that cab I close miked the lone old green 25. Even with the hodge podge set of speakers my straight still is the closest cab I've heard to my favorite slant. I'd say the slight differences in the clips is probably 40% due to the the cab and 60% the amp.

I'll give it one more day before I let the cat out of the bag...

[moj067]

The first amp sounds looser, where the second sounds like it has more immediate attack, quicker response wise. I suppose that means one is the broken-in wreck and the second is the newly born amp.
Thanks for the demos.

[geetarpicker]

You got it folks. Yes X is my original and Y is the clone.

I'm tempted to tweak it just a tad to mellow it out just a bit, either adding some input resistance, a smaller bright cap, a resistor in series with the bright cap, or possibly a larger PI (faux cut control) cap. It doesn't need much to totally be there, and maybe 5 years from now it will need nothing. I played it tonight at my weekly club gig and I really feel that it has just a tiny bit more gain in the preamp than my original, which makes the volume knob sit lower for the same overall gain and in turn the bright cap has more effect when you click it in. It actually sounds best turned up a little farther than actually like gain wise, just to minimize the bright caps effect.
I actually like using the full bright 500pf position on my original Wreck.
I think I'll first try raising the PI cap from 50pf (what's in my original) to 80 or 100pf.

Both of these clips by the way were with the bright switch in the full position.

Thanks folks for listening!

[El_Martin]

Thank YOU for posting, Glen!

T'was fun

Keep us informed about the tweaking. Check out little snubber caps over plate resistor(s) on stage 2 and/or 3
(But what do I know about wrecks...)

Ciao
Martin

[Richie]

Glen. I agree what Martin said. try just one first. A .001 across the plate resistor on the second stage. Depending on the cap used,disc or other, 400v to 600v rating.
It should be about perfect. It will also allow you to use some 12AX7s that were just a little too microphonic in the amp before,will work in the amp. I know snubbers are frowned on in amps, but depending on the amp, some need them.
It will also roll off the most slightest of the highs. Very very subtle and will sound a bit smoother or warmer sound to it.. HA ha like you said, maybe a sound like the amp is broken in. I think you did a great job in building the amp,and how it turned out and sounds.
Try the snubber before you try making any other changes. Its also easily removed if you don't like it, or as the amp ages and maybe sounds more mellow,you could remove it.
As always, your clips and playing were fun to listen to.

[Buschman]

Or turn off the bright switch.

[slajeune]

Woa,

I actually liked clone a bit better than the real one... That is shocking to me but also very comforting as it is within my reach!

Thanks for taking the time to record and post this side by side comparaison. It is VERY appreciated.

Cheers,
Stephane.

[Lonely Raven]

Yeah, that makes me feel better about my clone as well. She's finicky though. I swear, completely different tones come from this amp from one day to the next.

But then again, I've felt that about most amps I was really listening to rather then just playing.

I do still like Y better. The extra edge it has just feels more modern.

[geetarpicker]

I've never liked the tone of the bright switch off on my Express. However you do have to get the volume quite far up to minimize it's effect somewhat. The extra high end helps the clean tone sound somehow cleaner, but then the extra highs get rounded off when you push the amp hard into overdrive. The old G12M speakers also help to mellow it when you are pushing it. As much as I've tried liking the amp with the bright off I can't ever get it to work that way overall. What I'm saying is I think the bright switch helps the amp do the clean to scream thing to it's fullest. Still, even on my original (which I don't want to mess with just cause) I've been tempted at times to swap out the 500pf bright cap for possibly a 400pf or so.

The cool thing about the clone is I'm not worried to tweak on it. It's really not that much brighter to bother me by itself. However when coupled with my Scumback 25s (which are slightly brighter), and some of my stage guitars (which are also brighter) the total net needs a little mellowing out to be "perfect"

[Richie]

I've never liked the tone of the bright switch off on my Express

Same here.. i like the bright switch on,with the LP type guitars..

[Doug H]

I think both the clips sound great, Glen. AFAIC, there's not enough to difference to say one is "good" and the other "bad"- they're both good, just slightly different. Shouldn't be too hard to soften up the highs in the bright one to make it sound like the other or vice versa. They are very close.