i was thinking of effects loops in these style amps and the more i thought about it, the more i think it would be a waste. tell me if this makes sense. normal fx loop is after preamp, before poweramp. time based effects are usually put after distortion, therefore for amps with a lot of preamp gain (mesa boogie for example) it would go gain - fx - poweramp. for an amp like a TW, where the PI and PS also add to the distortion of the amp to a great degree, wouldnt the only place to put any time based FX be after the PA section, such as a line out into another clean poweramp?
does this make sense and has anyone built a loop in this style of an amp and 100% loved the outcome? just wondering
question about fx look in TW style amp
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LeftyStrat
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Re: question about fx look in TW style amp
Yeah I think it would be a waste. You could put a line out that was post-OT and then run that to another clean amp and set of speakers.
A lot of times I run my amp into a Weber Mass turned all the way down so it provides a complete load, and then take the line out and run that into my rack fx then into a stereo power amp and then to a stereo guitar cab.
What doesn't work very well is post-OT line out to fx to PA, because you don't get the coloration of the speakers, so you'd need some kind of speaker sim.
A lot of times I run my amp into a Weber Mass turned all the way down so it provides a complete load, and then take the line out and run that into my rack fx then into a stereo power amp and then to a stereo guitar cab.
What doesn't work very well is post-OT line out to fx to PA, because you don't get the coloration of the speakers, so you'd need some kind of speaker sim.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Re: question about fx look in TW style amp
Recently I've been gigging with a Dumble style amp so preamp distortion and delay in the loop.
When I used either a Super Reverb or a Bassman cranked, I got much better responce by running the delay effects on the PA. I noticed that Larry Carlton does the same by using a small monitoring PA on stage.
When I used either a Super Reverb or a Bassman cranked, I got much better responce by running the delay effects on the PA. I noticed that Larry Carlton does the same by using a small monitoring PA on stage.
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geetarpicker
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Re: question about fx look in TW style amp
I've tried putting a load box (THD on load setting, and I've even tried a full speaker in an iso box as a load) on my original '89 Express and running that out to effects and to another power amp. However something is always lost in the process of the straight tone when running the complete tone back through the power amp.
However I do run effects onstage sometimes with a slightly different approach. I'll run the guitar into the amp and then out of the amp straight into the cabinet. Then I'll take the 2nd speaker jack and pad that down to line level using a simple two resistor voltage divider circuit. Then that signal is run to a line level effects processor, into a power amp, then to a separate speaker. Then the effects are set to only pass signal when activated, and when bypassed the effect inputs are muted. In other words the effects only come out of the effects cab when activated, and then the effects go silent when bypassed but any reverb or delay tails still fade out naturally. The trick is to find effects that allow you to switch them in and out remotely, and also to select the muting for "input mute" on any ambient type effects. I run two Lexicon MX300s and they can be setup to function nicely in this kind of setup. Then on stage I mike up both the dry and effects cabinet with two mics.
IMHO there is two much going on in each stage of the Trainwreck circuit for any effects loop to work well.
Yes this setup also works well with a miked signal instead of a line out. However then the microphone and speaker are already in the signal path so you then have to run the final effects signal out to full range PA or monitor type cabs.
However I do run effects onstage sometimes with a slightly different approach. I'll run the guitar into the amp and then out of the amp straight into the cabinet. Then I'll take the 2nd speaker jack and pad that down to line level using a simple two resistor voltage divider circuit. Then that signal is run to a line level effects processor, into a power amp, then to a separate speaker. Then the effects are set to only pass signal when activated, and when bypassed the effect inputs are muted. In other words the effects only come out of the effects cab when activated, and then the effects go silent when bypassed but any reverb or delay tails still fade out naturally. The trick is to find effects that allow you to switch them in and out remotely, and also to select the muting for "input mute" on any ambient type effects. I run two Lexicon MX300s and they can be setup to function nicely in this kind of setup. Then on stage I mike up both the dry and effects cabinet with two mics.
IMHO there is two much going on in each stage of the Trainwreck circuit for any effects loop to work well.
Yes this setup also works well with a miked signal instead of a line out. However then the microphone and speaker are already in the signal path so you then have to run the final effects signal out to full range PA or monitor type cabs.